New Skins for Arnor Soldiers!?

[LordDainIronfoot]

I was thinking since Gondor got new skins for its Soldiers which are so good looking I really like them,esepcially the Shoulder Armor,why not Arnor get one too!?Arnor already ahs one of te coolest Elite Units in Game for me at least and those are the Palace Guards I love them they look so great and are in my top 3 favourtie Units their skins are amasing and also they ahve the coolset looking Rangers those under Carthean Command!So I just wante to suggest to make some minor changes like some kind of Shoulder Armor with some change in the Chest Armor or something like that!I mean if it is possible and the Team has the wish and time to do it some time in the future cuz I realease that they are busy now with the upcoming Factions!So good luck Team and keep up the astonishing work!

[CragLord]

Team obviously used movie's models for both factions.
For Arnor is used Numenorian solder model from prologe of Lotr:Fellowship of the Ring.
http://postimg.org/image/invimeppf/
And those soldiers don't have shoulder armor.(Maybe is better to stay like this, it makes more difference from Gondor in some way.)
Similar  story for Gondor infantry, but their models from movie have that shoulder armor...
And I really don't understand why team have completly remove simbol of Nimploth from Arnor faction!?
I really like new coat of arms, but in my opinion that new simbol should be used for Heroes (it represents their ruling objects) and elite units (Palanir Guards (nice palantir simbol should stay), New  Elite Swordsmen have also nice simbol.)
For basic units (swordsmen, archers, pikeman, cavalry) should be used simol of Nimploth. This way all history facts have been covered.

 

[Gandalf The Gray]

[CragLord]

First picture is unusable (to fuzzy), second also with exception of Arnor's king appearance which is already used in game, third looks more like some elven armour.

[Gandalf The Gray]

look at the helmet man its kinda looks like aragorns crown

[CragLord]

Hmm, don't want to offend you in  anyway, but have you seen crown/hemlet of High Kings? It's similar but in my opinion worse...
Elendil's: http://www.oocities.org/rodimus_99/elendilhelm_03.jpg
Isildur's (while he was prince) : http://www.collecttolkien.com/images/Helmets/Helm%20FOTR%20Isildur%20Sideshow.jpg

[LordDainIronfoot]

I think the Soldiers should have their Capes from the Epilogue! :)I liked it very much and if change can be done to them I tihnk adding the Cape wil lbe great!

[CragLord]

That is nice idea for experimenting. I would also like to see that. Watched that Epilogue again, just before writing this comment, and I also noticed that Numenorian Archers, and also Noldor's wariors have capes, and standard battalion's commanders/generals didn't have capes, they just hold sword while marching. (So no changes for banner carriers) 

[LordDainIronfoot]

I tihnk they deseve the Capes since it represent their Old Style from 2nd Age and will make them more Unique than other Factions where only Elite Units have Capes!

[CragLord]

Agree about capes, they will look more dignified and unique with capes.

[LordDainIronfoot]

Yes,they will look more proud and noble !!After all they are Numenoroians! :-)

[Skylarapas]

Well I for one agree. But it's up to the team. I believe they have something really good up their minds for Arnor (not making it separate). If you watch the prologue of the movie again you'll notice in the midst of battle just where the camera lifts to Elrond, that there's a Dunedain Soldier holding an Axe and struggling against orcs. He is just behind Elrond. JUST RIGHT behind him.

Then I remembered that Tolkien wrote in the Appendices of ROTK that ancient Gondor soldiers carried Axes as well as swords. So I thought that even though making entirely different battalions of Axemen for Arnor wouldn't serve a role, giving instead for each battalion randomly generated 2-3 Axemen seems a good idea and it strengthens the feeling of diversity from Gondor.

However, unless the team finds something else this would be only for visual purposes.

I hope somebody from THE TEAM sees this.

[Aule the creator]

i agree as well i think they should give arnor armor from the campaign it looks weird without the white tree keep elite units thhe same way and change regular infantry like for example archers swords and spears basic units and arvedui shield 

[Mercer John]

Since Edain Team was upgrading dwarfs and Elfs as new faction and new soldiers skins, Arnor has been the same since 3.8.1 on design. I suggest that Edain Team need to upgrade Arnor so it look better ( like the others factions) and more Edain Style. What do you think about it.

[Darkayah]

I think the skins of the Arnor-Soldiers have a very high grade and are with others the best skins in the game. I don't think that Arnor needs new skins. And they current armor is like in the books and a mix from the movies.

[Adamin]

Actually a lot of thought was put into the Arnor design back then. So much so, that we're still quite satisfied with it.

The Soldiers in the Prologe of the first LotR movie are not the same as our Arnorian Soldiers. The Battle of the Last Alliance ends the Second Age, so it's Year 0 of the Third Age. Arnors conflict with Angmar meanwhile lasts from Year 1400 till 1900 of the Third Age.
Almost two Millenia later! The style of Arnor would have hardly stayed the same in this space of time. That's why our Arnor soldiers look similar but have some differences to the soldiers of the Last Alliance.

The symbol of the White Tree was removed because it is much closer tied to Gondor then Arnor. Isildur, cofounder of Gondor, rescued the seedlings from Nimloth and planted them in Minas Ithil & Minas Tirith (which was then called Minas Anor) down in Gondor.

Upon the foremost ship a great standard broke, and the wind displayed it as she turned towards the Harlond. There flowered a White Tree, and that was for Gondor; [...]

There are however the Heirlooms of the House of Elendil, founder of Arnor, which were handed down through the genereations and hold dear in Arnor: The Elendilmir, the Sceptre of Annúminas, and the Ring of Barahir. We decided that these artifacts would give us a more personal coat of arms for Arnor and would further distinguish it from its sister realm Gondor.

So yeah, those are some of the thousand minute details that went into our Arnor Soldiers. ^^

[CragLord]

That new edain mix of those three symbols was one of the most uniqe stuff you have implemented in mod in my opinion. I personally like it very much, and I agree that Nimloth white tree symbol from  Númenorean's shields of second age (and from Lotr prologe) wasn't good idea for period of Arnor kingdom of 1900 year of Third age.

Concerning symbol of white tree, we probably have one thing to think about.
In general, in movies, we have symbol of Nimloth, which is white tree of  Númenor.
I agree that symbol of Numloth wasn't suitable as offical symbol for Arnor because of that time gap between Elendil's time and ending ruling period of his heirs in Arnor during 20th century of third age.
Current white tree symbol of tree of Gondor is offical and very lore correlated to Gondor.
It present current white tree of Minas Thirit. As you have said "similar" one existed in Minas Ithil.
But also, every heir of Elendil has practice to use that white tree symbol with winged crown on top of it. So officially from lore, Arnor's ruling members could use that white tree with crown as symbol. That winged crown presents Elendils heritage in general.
White tree without crown presents official symbol of Gondor.
So that was a small note, and I comletely understand new offical symbol.
One question from lore, those birds on elite units and their armor? They also appeared on Faramirs weta designed shield. What they represent?

Now concerning current Arnor units, I find them very nice, and it is noticeable that team have invested a lot of effort in them. One thing which should be improved is model of Arnor spearman (or pikeman). They look really desoriented with their animation, and their current model should be improved with some longer and better spears.
Current spears are too short, and their attack and moving animations are very "unusual".
Simply Gondor corresponding unit look so much better in comparison with them. That is probably only model cosmetic thing I have found really bad in this current Arnor faction.
Arnor Spearman should be improved according to standard of this mod in my opinion.
If I look out of this topic, maybe somehow also to try to make some better palantir portrait of Araphant and his model to improve also. That's all concerning Arnor in general which isn't on Edain's famous detailed level in my opinion.

P.S. I have wonder, some new heroic unit for Arnor is needed. To correspond to Gonor's Guardians of the White city. Have team thought about Guardians of Annúminas, which were suggested by BalkanLuka some time ago on modb? I think that suggestion could be nice stuff to think about in this way.
They could probably correspond to Guardinas of the White city in the situation when Arvendui gets ring?  (Maybe to rename them to Guardians of Fornost because of time/lore facts etc)

Regards,
CragLord

[Adrigabbro]

When I looked out for Arnor bugs the other day, I couldn't help thinking there was a little something wrong with Arnor basic units. I'm not saying the details are bad, but as someone reported somewhere else perhaps their head is alittle too big and that's what makes them look kinda weird.

Anyway, just like Araphant palantir icon and skin, those are not top-priority things but they could use some little work if you guys decide to look into Arnor with Angmar on its way.

[Adamin]

One question from lore, those birds on elite units and their armor? They also appeared on Faramirs weta designed shield. What they represent?

Those are actually purely decoration. One of the few things. I didn't came up with any specific meaning for them. It was more a means to distinguish the elite banner from the standard banner.

[CragLord]

Those are actually purely decoration. One of the few things. I didn't came up with any specific meaning for them. It was more a means to distinguish the elite banner from the standard banner.

They are pretty nice decoration. Anyway, I had some different view on them after I have seen first time that non canon (correct me if I am wrong) shiled of Faramir:

I think that those "birds" present two simetrical parts of Elendil's crown. 
Anyway, very fitting for Arnor.

P.S. Why did you divide you answer on my post?
       I got confused.
 
Regards,
CragLord

[Gandalf The Gray]

i dont think arnor is perfect and it has so much potential to be more unique

[CragLord]

I totally agree with you Gray! 

Also Aule, please don't post comments like that concerning locking of topic!
Why do you think Arnor as faction is perfect?
I think Arnor is good, but there is probably a lot of things to improve there.
I honesty think that we need comments which will contain good amount of critics which is based on lore facts and good prepared concepts. Those kind of coments are the most helpful in my opinion.

Best regards,
CragLord

[Walküre]

Also Aule, please don't post comments like that concerning locking of topic!
 

I agree.

Aulë, I think that this topic has all the needed premises to remain open, since it doesn't violate the rules of the forum nor does it raise nonsense or absolutely not conceptual matters, unless, obviously, the Edain Team doesn't clearly state that this is a possibility utterly out of discussion.

And, yes, without any offence, I too think that you are probably the last one to talk about locked threads or not constructive discussions.

The thread remains open, for now, unless opposite dispositions of the Edain Team.
If I can give some advices, I would recommend to debate even more, if there is an opportunity, about lore reasons and characteristics that deal with the model themselves, just to give more insightful points of view 

[Celebrimbor]

CragLord

Just wait.
I think they will change that in the future.
But not now because they have too much to do with angmar and stuff 

[CragLord]

CragLord

Just wait.
I think they will change that in the future.
But not now because they have too much to do with angmar and stuff 

With all respect man, I understand what you wanted to tell me, but just take a one precise look on my comments. I am not demanding anything from team etc
I never had intention to be imperative also, so if any of my comments are sound in that way, to be clear that is not my intention.
My only intention is to give good critics where is needed, because only normal critics can improve something in my opinion.
So any of my suggestions are with purpose to point on something which I find out of standard of this mod, and things which could be improved in my opinion.
If team finds my feedbackS useful, I know they will take them into consideration.
I am totally aware of that. So main point is to "point" on something which could be improved and to share thought. That is main point of every discussion in my opinion.
And if team decide to change anything according to some suggestion and when, that is totally other thing.
So just try to help with making discussion better and supportive comments of that kind leave a side. If team decide to change anything, they will know the best timing for that.

Best regards,
CragLord