[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

Garrison Archers : a "new" unit for manning the walls

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klantai:
Well, my point is I'm not sure "on the wall" is something the game can detect and act upon in a skill/formation, but someone of the Team would have to answer that. If it can, then so much the better ; I kind of liked the idea of being able to use the archers in an unmoving formation even outside the walls though.
Anyhow, I hardly suggested to create an entirely new unit : it's more about giving a specific role to those Morthond archers, as well as finding a way to implement this in Rohan. If giving the formation to regular archers too seems more fitting (and it would make sense really ^^) then it's fine. However, unless a toggle can be achieved between more than 2 formations, regular archers would have to abandon one of their old formations (I don't know if people use them though ^^), and it would be harder to give them a special ability like the volley I suggested (due to limitations in the Palantir slots). Above all, I think that in addition to whether any on wall/overall, power/armour bonuses are applied or whether it's a specific unit or regular archers, it's important to find a way to spread archers in a single line fitting the wall so that they can man it smoothly.
All in all, I feel it comes down to whether specializing a bit an archer unit or (armoured) archers in general to defending walls is worth the trouble or not ; and as sieges are more frequent and intense than before, my answer to that would be yes : ).
As a last remark, after playing a game earlier this evening, I realized Morthond archers actually already do half of what I want them to do : their formation reduces incoming projectile damage while slowing them down : ). The catch is the way they deploy with that formation, whereas their fellow fiefdom soldiers with pike deploy in a remarkably fine single curved line that would fit my purpose quite well : in the end, all I suggest doing is merging those two abilities and fine tuning the result a bit : P

NetoD20:
I think the best way to approach this is giving the regular archer unit of each good faction a "Man the Wall"  formation ability which makes the unit immovable and puts them in a certain pattern but bestows the following benefits:

-High armour against ranged attacks
-Higher range
-Higher velocity of attack

I don't see a problem in using them in this formation on camp, as long as they are given slow speed and have to be defended by infantry not only from cavalry but from foot-soldiers, being vulnerable in melee.

"So you are proposing to make all Good archers in this way, changing how we have been using them on camp for so long?" Yes, in fact I do and I see no problem with it. Edain 4.0 it's supposed to be a siege-oriented game (and most real medieval battles were sieges), so for me there is no problem in giving a regular and common unit a specific defensive siege role, for most battles should be sieges.

That solution would also address one of the problems I have with Edain 4.0 which is that archers are overly nerfed. That would make them more effective in a particular formation but still make them vulnerable to melee. So they wouldn't be nerfed anymore but would still be nerfed, if you get what I mean.

Again, I don't propose all Good archer units to be modified in this way, only the stand regular ones. More specialized archer units like Ithilien Rangers and Dúnedain should still be fast units used on camp battles rather than sieges.

I still agree with the author of the topic in that Morthond archers should have a role in the game. I agree with the mindset that variety of units should be accompanied by variety of roles, but siege shouldn't be the role of Morthond archers, that should be the role of Gondor Archers, the regular archers of that faction.

Sir_Stig:
I agree with neto

klantai:
Agreed : ) (I may have expressed myself wrong, I never meant for ranger-type units to have the man wall formation, just regular and/or Morthond). However it leaves me with a few questions : P :

- What of the formation toggle regular archers used to have ? I haven't had time to play much the past days so I couldn't test whether it was useful or not, but it would have to be replaced with the new formation, wouldn't it ?

- I agree that the Morthond archers may not be the best fit to the man the walls role (though when I suggested giving it to them, I was thinking it as part of another suggestion where you'd get access to them in a different way than in current Edain 4.0 ^^).
Then what role should they have ? According to the books, they went out on the fields of Pelenor and managed with great losses (including their lords) to kill many Mumaks by getting close to them and shooting in their eyes. This would tend to designate them as monster killers, but maybe this role is already taken by the rangers ? Maybe they could be a sort of low range, good resistance, good against monsters kind of unit, that could survive being swamped on the battlefield a little better than their peers ?

- Regular archers have, if I'm not mistaken, three rows of units, while Morthond only have two. While I know from the fiefdom pike-men that a two line formation can deploy smoothly into a single line (with a nice curved formation to boot ; though I haven't tried that on a wall yet, to see if it goes as smoothly : ), I don't know if it's feasible for a three line formation. It may be possible though, and maybe there are better solutions, like a very close rank two lines formation on the basis of the turtle from regular Gondor footmen ?

- If the man the wall ability is to be given to regular archers, which by all means seems right, I believe it would tend to exclude such ability as I suggested (the volley with possible morale effects) as it would tend to make regular archers too powerful, am I wrong ?

- While man-the-wall sounds cool as a formation name, if it's to be usable anywhere (on the wall or not) as most of us suggested, it may be a good idea to come up with a better name ^^.

- Lastly, while I agree about giving the role to regular archers, and finding another role for Morthond archers, the general idea of a sort of “light siege” unit still seems interesting to me (though there is no unit to give it to anymore ^^) : I can rather imagine the free people having a battalion of good archers with powerful bows and special burning arrows to burn down enemy buildings than them having heavy siege machinery even though in films, books and game they fulfill a defensive role. What do you guys think of it ?

Sir_Stig:
As far a a name for the formation, "defend the high ground" would be good, assuming it is tied to being higher than your enemies.

I think a nice, tight two row formation would be fine for the archers.

I would keep it limited to just a formation change, no extra abilities would be needed.

For Morthond archers I think maybe a higher melee resistance and extra damage vs monsters would be fine, still makes them useful without becoming crazy powerful.

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