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Lore Corner - Questions and Debates

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Walküre:
That's also a valid example. One of the imperative laws of Arda goes by the founding assumption that the Elves, the Firstborns, shall live as long as the very world does, not suffering the plagues of illness nor being destined to age and wither; yet, time passes for every living creature and tends to become a burden on the shoulders of immortal beings. Specifically, should the earth (where the Elves are meant to dwell in eternity) be marred and wounded, grief is to temper with such immortal lifespan and have direct effects on Elves themselves: pain, toil or desperation can lead immortal beings to a slow fading unto the moment of definitive departure (death), or they can make an immortal heart so much disheartened and weary, so that the journey beyond the Sea becomes the ultimate solution.

All in all, Elves' immortality is quite more elaborate than the common idea of never-ending life. Although they're gifted an eternal existence, they still differ from the Ainur and mortal events may too turn out to be as impactful for them as they are for Men.

Walküre:
Speaking about the renowned journey to the West, I thought about another related topic to discuss: in your opinion, was Radagast the Brown eventually granted the pardon of the Valar and so the permission to come back to the Blessed Realm?

I've always known that the wizard had begun in time to forget about his mission, busy with the company of animals and secluded from the outer world, at the point of failing to achieve the task he was originally appointed to. It's therefore very logical to suppose that he was subsequently forbidden to pass across the sea and to have his full powers as Maia back. But all of this is what I could find on the matter so far, and I don't personally remember if Tolkien has left some kind of revealing hints about it.

I sincerely believe (I like to believe), that Radagast was finally allowed among the people of Aman, in the end. Never has he been author of evil mischief during his entire permanence in Middle-earth; it's quite the other way round, as he did contribute to help the Good via minor acts, yet significant (he sent the Eagles to Isengard and in front of the Black Gate too). It might be legitimate to speculate that, at an unspecified moment during the Fourth Age, the Istar may have taken the route to the Undying Lands through the only two possible ways at his disposal: either aboard a ship or going across the horizon on an Eagle. In both cases, he would have surely deserved such a merry ending.

AulëTheSmith:

--- Zitat von: Walküre am  2. Feb 2018, 23:31 ---Speaking about the renowned journey to the West, I thought about another related topic to discuss: in your opinion, was Radagast the Brown eventually granted the pardon of the Valar and so the permission to come back to the Blessed Realm?

I've always known that the wizard had begun in time to forget about his mission, busy with the company of animals and secluded from the outer world, at the point of failing to achieve the task he was originally appointed to. It's therefore very logical to suppose that he was subsequently forbidden to pass across the sea and to have his full powers as Maia back. But all of this is what I could find on the matter so far, and I don't personally remember if Tolkien has left some kind of revealing hints about it.

I sincerely believe (I like to believe), that Radagast was finally allowed among the people of Aman, in the end. Never has he been author of evil mischief during his entire permanence in Middle-earth; it's quite the other way round, as he did contribute to help the Good via minor acts, yet significant (he sent the Eagles to Isengard and in front of the Black Gate too). It might be legitimate to speculate that, at an unspecified moment during the Fourth Age, the Istar may have taken the route to the Undying Lands through the only two possible ways at his disposal: either aboard a ship or going across the horizon on an Eagle. In both cases, he would have surely deserved such a merry ending.

--- Ende Zitat ---

I definely share you vision Walküre. Radagast did nothing bad to be banned from the final returns to the sacred lands. He simply lost his path, yet helping in some occasions as you said.

It is interesting, to remain in theme, the death of Saruman as described in the lore. In the moment he dies, his spirit initially turns into the west , almost as if his soul was accepted anyway (despite what he did) in the hall of mandos, but then a cold wind coming from west blown his spirit away. I like very much that passage of the book :)

OakenShield224:
“And as the captains gazed south to the Land of Mordor, it seemed to them that, black against the pall of cloud, there rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky. Enormous it reared above the world, and stretched out towards them a vast threatening hand, terrible but impotent: for even as it leaned over them, a great wind took it, and it was all blown away, and passed; and then a hush fell.”

"To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing. "

Interesting how the descriptions of both Sauron and Saruman in their final moments are so similar.

Walküre:
No wonder that he came up with a strong analogy between the two characters: in spite of the differences, they were both counted among the Angels and betrayed their mission in the worst manner possible, inflicting additional agony to the already-marred Arda, hindering the Good in any way (Sauron had been tormenting the lore of Middle-earth since the Elder Days). Thus, their ultimate fate is the gravest which could befall for the Ainur: being violently deprived of your own physical body and undergoing a destiny of eternal misery as a wandering phantom, without rest or relief.

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