[en] The Prancing Pony > The Lord of the Rings
Lore Corner - Questions and Debates
Walküre:
--- Zitat von: Adamin am 4. Nov 2015, 15:31 ---Now that is interesting.
I suppose you can't really say then, if it is canon or not, since Morgoth's Ring (as the whole History of Middle-earth Series) consists of early manuscripts and development notes from Prof. Tolkien. Strictly speaking none of this made it into the published, finished Versions of the Lord of the Rings or the Silmarillion, and I guess Tolkien had good reasons for that.
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Yes, I had kind of imagined it myself, but, apparently, this interpretation is relatively widespread as the actual lore, as I had also the opportunity to see in other Tolkien-related pages.
That's why I personally always prefer the 'original' (published) and earlier material from the Silmarillion (that naturally involves, consequently, other fundamental Arda matters), which might seem to be a bit 'rough' or incomplete, but it's surely my guide across all the founding aspects of the Legendarium :)
For example, I surely appreciate more Galadriel passing the deadly Grinding Ice with her brothers and relatives of the Noldorin Royal Family (and meeting Celeborn in Doriath), rather than her reaching later Middle Earth with Celeborn (previously known in Alqualondë) with a Telerin ship (the version followed by LOTR) :P
--- Zitat von: Adamin am 4. Nov 2015, 15:31 ---So yeah, who is to say what happens to the elves that stay? No one knows! And that in itself is somewhat beautiful. ^^
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Yes, it really gives the needed sense of Mystery.
But, as I generally approach the events of Arda, fundamental themes like these should be bound to a sort of ultimate 'Order', although they can easily have arcane elements regarding their nature.
In this case, I would say that it wouldn't be possible, in my opinion, that some Elves might survive as spirits in the World, and, occasionally, appear to Humans.
I would say that, whether by sailing from the Grey Havens by choice, or getting old and finally dying, all the Elven souls must necessarily and eventually reach Aman (Valinor or the Halls of Mandos) as any sentient being who dies, regardless of the fact that it remains in Mandos' Realm to be judged (Elves) or leaves the physical Universe (Humans).
Everything would thus be subjected to a certain degree to the Authority of the Valar, the Archangels and Guardians of Arda 8-)
I know, it might sound not very democratic, but, in the end, Valinor is an absolutist Theocracy xD
The presence and the trace of the Elves would thus be gradually deleted and forgotten as well from the ordinary and disenchanted World, alive only in Aman, the only place where they can fully live according to their immortal Nature.
--- Zitat von: ThorinsNemesis am 4. Nov 2015, 15:59 ---Talking about Silvan Elves, is it written somewhere in the books if Thranduil went to Valinor or stayed to rule his kingdom? My theory is that he stayed in Middle-earth, but does the lore contradict this?
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As far as I know, Thranduil's fate is completely unknown.
But, I always hope that any Elf will eventually pass beyond the Sea ;)
ThorinsNemesis:
Well, if Thranduil's fate is unknown, he may have decided that his people in Eryn Lasgalen needed him, so he may have decided to remain in Middle-earth.
^^DieWalküre, since his fate is unknown, he may have passed into the West. But, since I like to imagine some Elves remained in Middle-earth, I hope he remained to lead his people :).
Walküre:
--- Zitat von: ThorinsNemesis am 4. Nov 2015, 18:08 ---Well, if Thranduil's fate is unknown, he may have decided that his people in Eryn Lasgalen needed him, so he may have decided to remain in Middle-earth.
^^DieWalküre, since his fate is unknown, he may have passed into the West. But, since I like to imagine some Elves remained in Middle-earth, I hope he remained to lead his people :).
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What about his wife? :)
She may have found Peace in the Halls of Mandos, and, then, reborn and gained back her physical body, to live forever in the Evergreen Plains of Valinor.
So, why won't our Thranduil reunite with his Love to be eternally in the Joy of Valimar, among the Holy Ones? :)
Even though, if he really decided to reach the Immortal Shores, he would obviously 'lose' any kind of Authority, intended as the Authority that he (and all the other Elven Lords) had in the mortal World.
Gandalf The Gray:
i dont think that this is Valimar xD
Walküre:
--- Zitat von: Gandalf The Gray am 6. Nov 2015, 19:28 ---i dont think that this is Valimar xD
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Yes, it is.
In DieWalküre's imagination, at least :P
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