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Lore Corner - Questions and Debates

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Walküre:

--- Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am  6. Feb 2016, 21:08 ---This is something I read up on reddit about an Ent gaining the One Ring which I actually found to be quite interesting to discuss. When I say Ent, though, I mostly think of Treebeard.

As a preliminary I think it is important to understand what it is the Ring does exactly for any newcomers. As far as I know, the Ring gives entities the power they need to realize their deepest desire and then corrupts the heck out of them. This is best shown by Gandalf's reaction when Frodo offers him the ring.

--- Zitat ---Don't tempt me Frodo! I dare not take it. Not even to keep it safe. Understand Frodo, I would use this Ring from a desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Gandalf realizes that from this desire to do good would sprout evil, even continuing on (in the novel), and saying he does not wish to become a Dark Lord himself.

Now let's have a look at what happened if Treebeard wielded it. Many people mentioned that it would probably have no effect but that's no fun so I'll go directly to the second option where he takes the Ring a his own and wield its power.

Treebeard is an Ent, a shepherd of trees, his role is to keep trees "in-check" largely speaking but he desires nothing more then to find the Entiwives which he believes are lost, presumed dead. Drawing from his reaction at the destruction of the forest it is reasonable to say he also wishes to protect his kind. Therefore if he were to gain the power of the One Ring it is possible that he would act similar to the Elves and try to preserve the forest by all means. This could possibly include waging war upon all other creatures that use wood, especially the Orc, most probably killing Saruman with his own hands. The corruption that is caused by the One Ring would lead him to become quite careless of his fellow's Ent lives, setting his eyes only upon the final point of total victory.

In the end they would easily destroy Isengard with their new power, probably Rohan which had severe serious casualties and with their only fortress breached. As for Gondor and Mordor I don't think it would be very likely, even hypothesizing that the power the Ring awakens all the Ents that had become trees breaching the door would be complicated but possible however hunting down every human would be a lengthy job. Destroying Mordor on the other side would be straight up impossible, they are too big to take the pass of Cirith Ungol and the Black Gate is most probably made of a Material stronger then the Orthanc. In addition Mordor loves fire ammo of all sorts. The final result would be a maimed Gondor, a destroyed Rohan, Isengard and possibly Elves who have no weapons against trees, not even axes. In addition the Ring would by pried from the cold dead corpse of Treebeard and given back to Sauron assuring a complete doom for Middle Earth.

*insert Ent joke about being hasty*  xD

I'm curious to know what you think of it. But I most interested about hearing what you thought of the power level estimation. Do you think Treebeard would have gained enough power to siege Mordor or less power that he would be defeated at the gates of Minas Tirith. I'm also wondering whether he would actually attack Middle-Earth or if he would go on a long journey to find the Entwives. Anyway, hope to hear from you guys


--- Ende Zitat ---

Since this topic could be the beginning of a nice and interesting lore debate, I think it should be better merging it with the main and appropriate thread for lore debates  :)

MERGED with: http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30753.msg388567.html#msg388567

VectorMaximus:
I had completely forgotten that Celebrimbor had bound himself to the ring in SOM. :D When I was typing that, I was thinking about the line from the game "you are banished from death".  Couldn't remember if it was said to Talion or Celebrimbor, but at the time I thought it was said to Celebrimbor by Sauron. If that's so, it would seem like a ban on him entering Mandos, so hence why I did my complaints about him (Sauron) not having the power nor the Valar motive. It's been a long time since I've played the game.


--- Zitat von: Adamin am 31. Jan 2016, 03:20 ---
At least that is what happens in the game, and it is in my opinion a very skillful rendition of the scenario What if a high Elf would use the One Ring.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Is that a hint towards the Imladris Ring Hero? ;)

That aside, I absolutely agree with what you said Adamin. The game does give a very good reason for him being a spirit after all.

 If we consider the SOM game canon, could it be that Celebrimbor's part of the ring (where he sealed his Power), helped to sustain Frodo or whoever would wield the one? Or would it have repressed by Sauron's will except when Celebrimbor himself wielded it? And by that same conclusion, while Sauron's will is what dominates the ring, because he is also bound to it, could Celebrimbor use its powers without ill affect? The only ill affect the ring has in the Bright Lord campaign is that it betrays him for Sauron, but as stated above, he makes more of the overall percentage of the ring's 'Soul'. Before that battle, Celebrimbor doesn't seem to have that many ill effects from the ring, save some arrogance, pride and anger, which is already in his blood (FEANOR!). At least that I remember, but as I said before, its been a long time since I've played the game.

hoho96:
To be honest I've never really played the game  xD Though I did watch all the cinematics on YT.
Anyway, I always thought of the ring as Sauron himself.
Ok, if you use a lense to focus the light and burn a paper, the energy that came from the lense if still the light itself before the lense.
So if the Sauron made the Ring to be his "lense", the power of the Ring is nothing more that Sauron himself. Now, I don't think you can alter someone's spirit in a way that you add something of yourself to it.

About this whole story of Sauron (the greatest craftsman in middle earth) needing Celebrimbor's help to finish the ring is, and sorry for the word, bullshit.
It quite sili to think that the one who taught the Elves how to make the rings in the first place, would need assistance from an Elf to make the ultimate weapon :o

Walküre:
You totally have my endorsement, hoho  8-)

With total respect for the game (that I never played) and its developers, that interpretation/version is totally rubbish, and I would never even accept it as a possible speculation.

Yes, the One Ring is basically the Will of Sauron objectified and bound to a material object.
Although it has different effects depending on people's own characteristics, the One Ring is totally complete in itself, and its inner essence could never be altered (diminish or augment) by anyone's actions.
Furthermore, thinking that Sauron needed help for the forging of the Master Ring is nonsense as well, because he didn't need the Elves to widen his knowledge, but he 'needed' them to eventually use them as puppets and achieve more quickly his evil purposes.

It was him who taught them the secret formula of the Rings of Power's nature, which inevitably characterises and binds the holy Three Rings as well; the formula that makes the fate of all the Rings intertwined with the one of the One Ring.

This is Sauron's idea of needing someone: Slavery  xD

That's why Celebrimbor and the Eldar in general always mourned and regretted having unintentionally helped Sauron in his plan.
I think that this iconic and recurrent track from LOTR entirely expresses the Elves' sorrow and resentment  :)
It's called: The seduction of the One Ring.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=UZd5WJ0EPiQ

Fredius:
Omg I love that soundtrack! It always plays in the evil campaign map of bmfe1 (**)! Hearing Saruman speaking about the conquest of Middle-Earth and this soundtrack playing in the background while the camera moves across the Middle-Earth map is really one of the most thrilling experiences ever!

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