Lore Corner - Questions and Debates

[Walküre]

I agree with Vector.
There is really nothing that suggests that the Dwarves of the Iron Hills can't make usage of rams to cope with the mountainous environment they live in.

Just like deers and elks for the Silvan Elves of the Woodland Realm 

[lord_ellessar]

So you think that Dain have chose to ride a boar for the prestige and then ride it only for battles or parades it seems interesting, I think the boar should look bigger

[Walküre]

Dáin's boar and Thranduil's elk are evidently meant to give to their own riders a more authoritative and distinctive appearance.

In history too we have many examples of how royal and authoritative figures choose to 'sanctify' or legitimise their image by choosing particular and above-the-average mounts.
The point is that everything is meant to display more effectively their authority on the ones they rule over.

[lord_ellessar]

So this is okay with the lore after all i though, the goblins and Orcs have wargs, that are big wolves then big goats are well fitting in the middle earth lore

[Walküre]

So this is okay with the lore after all i though, the goblins and Orcs have wargs, that are big wolves then big goats are well fitting in the middle earth lore

We don't have really exact statements in the pure lore about these matters, but it's definitely legitimate thinking about the different cases at hand (involving special mounts for higher characters like Gandalf and others), matching them with the whole archaic motive that the Tolkien Legendarium is based on and coming out with our speculation.

It's also very interesting noticing how the usage of particular animals has a pivotal role in the lore, resembling one of the most common traits of myths and legends 

[lord_ellessar]

Indeed the chariot of Thor is bring by goats

[lord_ellessar]

In what colour does Orcrist and Glamdring glow ?

[Walküre]

In what colour does Orcrist and Glamdring glow ?

All the mighty Noldorin Swords generally glow of a blue luminescence at the presence of Orcs.

This legendary property was always considered as pure Elven Magic by the other races (a bit envious, probably), but more precisely – apart from the extremely wide connotations that Magic can have in the Tolkien's Legendarium – this property was 'just' the external manifestation in the physical world of the Elves' unknown Art/Craftsmanship; a prerogative that the other races could have never replicated 

[Melkor Bauglir]

This legendary property was always considered as pure Elven Magic by the other races (a bit envious, probably), but more precisely – apart from the extremely wide connotations that Magic can have in the Tolkien's Legendarium – this property was 'just' the external manifestation in the physical world of the Elves' unknown Art/Craftsmanship; a prerogative that the other races could have never replicated 

Well, this certainly doesn't contradict this interpretation, but if I am not mistaken, the swords are essentially a sort of sentinent being in that they can feel the presence the impure presence of orcish scum, so to speak. I'm pretty sure when they find Glamdring and Sting in the troll hoard, it says that the blades shine angrily when in the presence of orcs. Hope I'm not mistaken, and yes this doesn't really relate to the original question.
Edit: BTW, coming to think about this: Do we know if all elvish blades share this trait? First of all, if yes the EA forged blades lightsabers are actually not that far away from how an elven army should look. This is mostly the point where I am beginning to think that this "ability" might not apply to all elven blades, because it would look totally stupid... The thing is that Glamdring being an extremely ancient weapon of royal background might represent the minority of elvish blades because its creator's city was destroyed by orcs, therefore granting the blade an extraordinary amount of hatred towards Morgoth's creatures. Might sound as over the top as an all glow-sword elven army, but I'd like to hear second thoughts about it. (Mostly, because I just don't get this imagery of Jedi-elves out of my head right now. )

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

PS: Yes, the thoughts after the horizontal line require exactly this amount of smileys, because a) I said so and b) the topic is a bit ridiculous^^

[Saruman der Bunte]

Well and concerning sentient swords in the legendarium: just read The Children of Hurin (or any other version of the story of Turin Turambar).

[Walküre]

I agree with you, Melkor.
It's concretely plausible that it was the prerogative of the Noldor only, mainly due to their natural interest in forging and, after fear and doubts spreaded throughout Eldamar, in warfare. The attendance of Aulë may have certainly influenced greatly the improvements of their overall skills; the brief attendance of Melkor during the merry days of Valinor has probably and indirectly played a significant role too in the development of an advanced craftsmanship (you see, you are always involved  ).

As you wrote, the ones possessing those swords were themselves a minority within the minority; with high probability, royal and other authoritative Noldorin figures.

If you are interested in other 'advanced craftsmanship features', it is told that the armours of the Valinor's Host (thus Vanyar and Maiar in prevalence) would shine of a holy light during the apocalyptic battles of the War of Wrath, when, presumably, the skies of Beleriand were covered by perennial darkness caused by Morgoth's powers.
Elrond tells the Council, in FOTR, that the light the Host emanated could fill plains and lands. Thus a speculation: magical armours as a prerogative of the troops of the Blessed Realm? 

By the way, hilarious smiles shouldn't be your main concern as you tried to slay the Silmarillion once, and I will never forget this 

[Melkor Bauglir]

By the way, hilarious smiles shouldn't be your main concern as you tried to slay the Silmarillion once, and I will never forget this 

Well, I'm literally "THE Evil" practically inventing it in the first place. That's what I do.
But, truth told, I don't really see it that way, for the most part those points aren't really bothering me that much. Just if we're talking about making films of a (clearly ) un-filmable book, I have to intervene.

BTW, I totally forgot about Gurthang, which is actually a very valid point supporting the first statement. My bad, won't happen again (without promising).


Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

[CragLord]

Very interesting and realistic "study" about Dragons&Evolution Of Dragons in Tolkien's universe: Link
Pretty amazing in my opinion.
So, do you agree with something similar in lore terms?

Regards,
CragLord

[Walküre]

Simply phenomenal! There always is precious material on DeviantArt that just awaits to be discovered 

The Winged Dragons appeared only in the very final stage of the War of Wrath, and neither the survivors of Beleriand nor the Host of the Valar had ever known of their existence until that time; it was a terrible and totally unexpected shock for the good forces, so that they even risked defeat when they were almost reaching victory in front of the doors of Angband.

Apart from their immensely terrible power (probably akin to the one of the Maiar), it's not mentioned at all how they were exactly bred by Morgoth. It's obvious that he may have used an unthinkable quantity of dark Margic and his own vital force (leaving him basically powerless) in the creation of such calamities; it's not explained, though, whether they were a totally new specie, if they evolved from the previous snake-like Dragons or if they were a corrupted form of an originally good/neutral beast (as Orcs are the corrupted version of Elves, and since the Evil can't create anything new on its own, but it can just mar things).

I personally appreciate the idea of them being completely new and revolutionary from all the past foul creatures that Morgoth had been unleashing against the Eldar and the Edain in the War of the Jewels. The main 'concept' of fire-breathing beasts was likely to be already present in Morgoth's mind, but I guess he really had to use his imagination to the fullest in coming up with what is probably the most powerful force of the Evil beside the Balrogs.

[Walküre]

Should the One Ring have never been found, would Sauron have prevailed anyway over the Free People of Middle Earth?

I think that this question is very much intriguing, primarily for the fact of having never been addressed in a so defined way in LOTR. The One Ring plays obviously an immensely prominent role as the 'magical tool' at the centre of the tale, in the trilogy; that's why I can't recall Tolkien ever inferring the possibility exposed above (that could have risked to devalue a bit the essential role of the artefact in the plot: the final victory over Sauron or the total destruction of Middle Earth.

On another tone, there is a passage in the Silmarillion that summarises the content of one of the White Council's meetings, in which Gandalf expresses his serious concern about the return of the Shadow in the World. An opinion that seems to be shared also by Elrond and Galadriel as well. What do you think about it? Do you feel like trusting more the iconic apocalyptic style of LOTR (which makes the One Ring the necessary premise for Sauron's triumph or downfall) or the summarised mythical knowledge of the Third Age contained in the last part of the Silmarillion?

But ever the shadow in Mirkwood grew deeper, and to Dol Guldur evil things repaired out of all the dark places of the world; and they were united again under one will, and their malice was directed against the Elves and the survivors of Númenor. Therefore at last the Council was again summoned and the lore of the Rings was much debated; but Mithrandir spoke to the Council, saying:
‘It is not needed that the Ring should be found, for while it abides on earth and is not unmade, still the power that it holds will live, and Sauron will grow and have hope. The might of the Elves and the Elf-friends is less now than of old. Soon he will be too strong for you, even without the Great Ring; for he rules the Nine, and of the Seven he has recovered three. We must strike.'

J.R.R. Tolkien - The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age