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Who is the third most powerful being during the time of Hobbit and Lord of the Rings stories?

Saruman of Many Colours
Smaug
Balrog
Elrond
Glorfindel
Witch king of Angmar

Autor Thema: Who is the third most powerful being in the Middle - earth?  (Gelesen 24088 mal)

TiberiusOgden

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Very popular topic on the LOTR forums. ;)



We must take into account many aspects like strength (physical, magical or strength of mind), age (experiences), origin (Maiar, human) and we must look at Tolkien quotes about characters and we can compare them with movie makers visions.
Time is also crucial - better question is Who is the most powerful being during the time of Hobbit and Lord of the Rings stories? :)
Of course, there can be problem even with interpretation of word "powerful" or "being" in the Tolkien's world.

Either way,
I am looking forward to discussion. :D

P.S. Once we have a list of names, so I'll start a poll and we will vote.  8-)

Edit: Story continues. :P
« Letzte Änderung: 9. Aug 2015, 22:37 von TiberiusOgden »

CynasFan

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #1 am: 25. Apr 2015, 16:06 »
Ok, I try.
If you follow J.R.R. Tolkien Sauron was the most powerful and very oldest Person in Middleearth in Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. Galadriel and Saruman together only were strong enough to fight against the Necromanth.

But if you ignore Sauron it´s Galadriel, Daughter of a Maiar and fighter against Sauron since the Second.

Greetings, CynasFan (from Germany)
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TiberiusOgden

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #2 am: 25. Apr 2015, 16:26 »
Perfect,

we already have some names for the poll: Necromancer, Galadriel, Saruman, Gandalf, Smaug, Balrog, Glorfindel, Elrond. :)
« Letzte Änderung: 25. Apr 2015, 16:39 von TiberiusOgden »

Azaril

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #3 am: 25. Apr 2015, 16:34 »
Since when is Galadriel the daughter of a maia, CynasFan? Her father and her mother were both elves.

But I agree that she is one of the most powerful beings at the time of Hobbit and LotR. Sauron is very powerful too, but you have to differentiate between the "Ring-Sauron", the Necromancer, and the Sauron in Barad-dûr. The former is the strongest of them, of course.

Other powerful beings in LotR are Olorin (Gandalf), Elrond, Curumo (Saruman), Glorfindel, Smaug, Durin's Bane, ...
There are many who possess plenty of power, some of them have physical strength (e.g. Smaug, Balrog), some have magical strength (e.g. the Istari and Sauron), and some have strength of mind (most of them).

So I think it is very difficult to determine one person that is the best in all aspects of power.

Edit: I forgot the Nazgûl. They are very powerful, too.
« Letzte Änderung: 25. Apr 2015, 16:41 von Azaril »

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CynasFan

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #4 am: 25. Apr 2015, 16:48 »
I was false.
I don`t know why I posted it than [uglybunti]

For me, the most powerful was Sam with his frying pan (Edain Mod 3.8)

Greetings, CynasFan
"Die Vernunft kann sich mit größerer Kraft dem Bösen entgegenstemmen, wenn der Zorn ihr dienstbar zur Hand geht!"
Papst Gregor der Große

"Alles was ich anzubieten habe ist Annäherung. Fragment. Wille zum Scheitern."
Walter Moers

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #5 am: 25. Apr 2015, 16:51 »
Since when is Galadriel the daughter of a maia, CynasFan? Her father and her mother were both elves.
Good point. Even her grandparents were not Maiar.
But we can say that during her life she had many relationships to Maiar. :)
Primarily Melian, then Olorin.

Edit: I forgot the Nazgûl. They are very powerful, too.
Do you mean ringwraiths in general or simply their leader Witch king?

Thartom

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #6 am: 25. Apr 2015, 17:43 »
But the Nazgul are only the slaves of Sauron, so i think at least with his Corruption-skills the maiar could win against them.
I think the most powerful being is Sauron. He´s a maiar, one of the creators of middle-earth (or did the valar all the work alone?), and how could someone create something more powerful than himself?
Saruman, Gandalf or Durin´s Bane wouldnt be a problem for him since he´s the most powerful of the maiar.

Danke an Sauron der 5000. fürs Banner :)

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #7 am: 25. Apr 2015, 17:52 »
Well,
I say that Galadriel.
Sauron can not stand without the One ring against the inner strength of Galadriel. In addition, she is able to read his mind and he is not.
Of course, if Sauron gets the One ring, so Lorien and Galadriel will fall. Sauron with the ring is the most powerful creature in the Middle-earth.  8-)
And Galadriel more powerful than Istari? In the Middle Earth definitely. :)
Istari have limitations. Purpose of their mission is strictly given - only to support, not to participate directly. But Galadriel has no restrictions. The greatest demonstration of power throughout the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings is when were threw down walls in Dol Guldur. And surely everyone knows who did it.  :P

I am not talking about Tom Bombadil because with him we are in the completely different dimension.  :o
He is something or someone really unique. My interpretation is that he is the most powerful being but only in his teritory, inside the borders.
« Letzte Änderung: 25. Apr 2015, 22:37 von TiberiusOgden »

Thartom

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #8 am: 25. Apr 2015, 22:34 »
But you say Sauron himself isnt the best, only with the ring he becomes the strongest. But the Ring is a piece of Sauron, so i would say, Sauron is the most powerful being, only without his ring of power he is weaker (and even then he´s one of the strongest).

Galadriel is strong too, yes, but in my opinion the movie-Galadriel isn´t the "true" middle-earth, it´s just PJs interpretation. In fact the whole White Council has maybe driven Sauron out of Dol Guldur, if it wasn´t part of his plan to "flee". And remember, Dol Guldur was an old ruin, not such a big fortress as Minas Morgul.

Danke an Sauron der 5000. fürs Banner :)

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #9 am: 2. Mai 2015, 22:09 »
I've just added poll. :)

Shagrat

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #10 am: 3. Mai 2015, 18:34 »
Considering the question is "Who is the most powerful being during the time of Hobbit and Lord of the Rings stories? " shouldn't it be "The Necromancer/Sauron" considering during the LotR he wasn't called Necromancer anymore?

btw guess for whom i voted^^

It was at the Survivor Series that the dark path of the Undertaker was born. It seems like an eternity ago that the demons of hell passed judgement on the mortal world and unleashed a creature of the night so powerful that the mention of it's very name sends shivers down to the spines of who oppose him
You look into the eyes of the Reaper and you'll see that your fate is sealed!

Sollten Banner und Avatar nicht Synchron sein, einfach mal mit Strg + F5 aktualisiern

Leiter des HdR-Matchup-Threads

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #11 am: 3. Mai 2015, 18:40 »
Of course. Fixed ;)

Thartom

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #12 am: 3. Mai 2015, 22:04 »
Of course (see my posts above) i voted for one of the only two really free maiar in middle-earth. But give Sauron a bit time for rising an army and the balrog is just a bad memory.

Zitat
btw guess for whom i voted^^

I know- for Shagrat!

Danke an Sauron der 5000. fürs Banner :)

Shagrat

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #13 am: 3. Mai 2015, 22:12 »
Zitat
btw guess for whom i voted^^

I know- for Shagrat!
'course he was the secret mastermind behind Sauron AND Morgoth... and of course Saruman... he also made the plans for the free people and will rule all of Middle-Earth in the 5th Age!

It was at the Survivor Series that the dark path of the Undertaker was born. It seems like an eternity ago that the demons of hell passed judgement on the mortal world and unleashed a creature of the night so powerful that the mention of it's very name sends shivers down to the spines of who oppose him
You look into the eyes of the Reaper and you'll see that your fate is sealed!

Sollten Banner und Avatar nicht Synchron sein, einfach mal mit Strg + F5 aktualisiern

Leiter des HdR-Matchup-Threads

Walküre

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Re: Who is the most powerfull being in the Middle - earth?
« Antwort #14 am: 4. Mai 2015, 00:07 »
Such a popular, thrilling and yet unresolved question and topic :)

But I won't contain myself, trying to use though at the same time not too much words  8-)

I think that we could quite surely say that Galadriel is the most powerful being in Middle Earth in the Third Age; although there are various interpretations about the powers of the Lady of Light and her status in Middle Earth, there are also solid facts :)

1. In the Third Age the World (Middle Earth) was grey, dark and disenchanted, a place in which the Elves were diminishing and leaving, almost becoming characters of the legends of Men.
Galadriel is a more-than-8000-year-old royal elf (or 20000-year-old if we use the other version of the computation of the Years of the Trees/Years of the Valar), older than the Sun and the Moon, blessed by the holy and legendary Light of the Two Trees, accounted as the fairest and very powerful among the Noldor even in Aman, scholar of the Valar in Valinor and of the Maia Melian in Beleriand, the only one of the Exiled that survived the rebellion and the War of the Jewels, and keeper of Nenya.

She was obviously an unique character and an exception even among the mightiest Elves of Middle Earth in the Third Age, the only remnant left of the Bliss of Valinor and of the Splendour of the Elder Days.

2. For the reasons stated above, she is the mightiest and fairest elf of the Third Age (exact words of Tolkien) and the 'de facto' queen of the Elves in this Age.
She is basically invincible in her own realm, Lothlórien, and Sauron could have never defeated her without the One Ring; she was able to see through his mind and will, while he couldn't.

3. She established herself the White Council and had the power to indicate its chief, even though Gandalf refused her offer.

4. The Istari were sent to Middle Earth with heavy restrictions placed upon them by the Valar; they were bound to take the bodies of old men and experience all the pains and sorrows of their physical bodies, they were ordered to guide the Free People instead of challenging Sauron directly, they lost the majority of their powers and had their infinite and immense memories as Angels in Valinor concealed in their own mind, weakening them even more (the Wizards journeyed Middle Earth, at their arrival, to recollect part of their lost and past knowledge).

The Istari can not be regarded as the Maiar that once were.

5. Sauron did not have the One Ring at that time and had lost his physical body, because he was severely defeated twice in the past and consequently lost the majority of his powers; while Galadriel increased her powers in time, the exact opposite thing.

Galadriel, though, being her a diminishing blessed elf in a dark World, did not have the role, the power or the authority to stop the War of the Ring and destroy completely Sauron, because this was naturally the task of Men and Frodo; she was ineluctably bound to leave Middle Earth to preserve her Grace.

So, if 'Power' doesn't only mean fighting or gathering armies, but has a deeper and wider meaning (and this is, I think, what Tolkien wanted to tell us), we can openly say that Galadriel was the most powerful being in Middle Earth at that time  :P
« Letzte Änderung: 1. Jan 2016, 02:04 von DieWalküre »