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Autor Thema: Outpost  (Gelesen 37252 mal)

DrHouse93

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #60 am: 19. Dez 2015, 19:32 »
I like the "Big Village" concept! It looks kinda representative of Rohan and also quite unique^^

Walküre

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #61 am: 19. Dez 2015, 20:34 »
The horn is really close in time from the arrival of Gandalf and the rohirrim; and the so called "cloud break". So if you want both, why not rename the spell "first light of the fifth day" or "dawn of the fifth day" or something alike and change the effect of the spell in a way that the horn is heard, and then, the "cloud break" happens?

Same effect if you wish, same duration, so, same tier.


As the Necromancer rightly wrote, that spell is not the matter of this topic.

If you want to express your ideas about that, and remark other possible aspects of the discussion, you are free to create a new thread in this same Rohan board  :)

Elite KryPtik

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #62 am: 19. Dez 2015, 23:09 »
Thanks for getting discussion back on track Necromancer :)

Besides my own, I really like the longer suggestion at the end and the Big Village, although I think it needs a better name.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #63 am: 20. Dez 2015, 21:14 »
I think that it should be possible to combine both ideas. I don't feel like the boundary camp does justice to an outpost-plot. It's nice that the Rohan has a chance to take on an early lead but the boundary camp sounds more like a settlement-plot. I think that once theoden is freed it should become more like the Big village concept. I, however fail to see how the change could be made realistically, game wise a simple upgrade with as requirement a freed theoden should suffice.
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Elite KryPtik

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #64 am: 21. Dez 2015, 19:16 »
So I have another idea for a new Outpost for Rohan. The Role and effects of the Outpost would change depending on whether Théoden is corrupted or cured.

The Outpost would be called the Riddermark Sentry-Post, and would cost 1500 regardless of whether Théoden is cured or not. Additionally, the outpost would grant a 10% discount on upgrades for each outpost, up to 30% with 3, both before and after Théoden is cured.

While Théoden is corrupted, this building would be used to ward off any potential allies who could help Rohan, and would also serve to falsify information gathered by scouts that could help Rohan against Isengard. It would also serve as a barracks for the traitors and spies implanted throughout Rohan by Grima and Saruman. Therefore, Traitors can be recruited permanently here in all 3 of their forms, Traitor Swordsmen, Spearmen and Cavalry. The warriors should cost 200, spearmen 300, and cavalry 400. These would be very strong initially, but be unable to buy banner carriers or forged blades, and would not be overpowered because they must be bought, unlike Théoden's temporary peasant conversion. Additionally, the Sentry-Post would have an ability called "Gather Information" which would function as a scouting power, which Rohan completely lacks right now. The power should either reveal everything in a wide radius, or directly reveal the enemy base. However, in order to simulate that the information would be tampered with before it reached those loyal to Rohan, it would cause all friendly units except traitors in a wide radius to lose some movement speed when its used. Finally, while Théoden is corrupted the Outpost would passively debuff all nearby normal units of 20% of their armor, like peasants and Rohirrim, as well as any allied units in team games, but would provide an armor boost to traitors, just like Farms do for Peasants.

After the King is cured and the sickness of Grima is expunged from him, this would serve as a strong point to rest and recover from battle in safety. To this end, it would gain a garrisonable arrow tower, and would provide +25% damage and armor as well as passive healing to friendly units. It would also serve as a mustering point for the militia of Rohan, and can therefore train some form of infantry that are stronger than peasants, which Rohan BADLY needs right now. I don't know for sure what units would be best fitting for this, I seem to remember somebody mentioning a power in 3.8 that upgraded all peasants to make them stronger, so that would probably work well if those units could be trained. (I never played 3.8, forgive me if I am wrong). These units would be 60 CP and would cost 500 each, both for the sword and spear variants, to prevent them from being as spammy as Rohans cavalry. Additionally, the "Gather Information" power would be upgraded to "Scouts of the Riddermark" which would send out 5 uncontrollable, stealthed horsemen, who would run to the targeted location, sharing their vision with the player, and then run back to the outpost once they had reached the target area. These horsemen would have double the normal vision radius of most units, and cannot attack or be attacked. The recharge should be fairly quick on this power, compared to other scout powers, because its a very direct line that the unit must be sent on.

That wraps up my 2nd idea for a new outpost for Rohan. I tried to keep this one more lore-friendly than a random tower with a horn of helm hammerhand, and I think this would provide more incentive to NOT cure Théoden for some players. Additionally, it would help Rohan get the infantry they so desperately need, without making them overpowered, and give Rohan a decent upgrade discount, which every single faction except them currently has in some form. Hope you enjoyed reading it, let me know what you think ;)
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Garlodur

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #65 am: 21. Dez 2015, 23:27 »
A few words on the mentioned concepts. Most of them are strange to be honest. They don't fit what Rohan stands for, and they don't all adequately cover up its flaws.

Elite makes some good points and the idea is quite unique so I wanted to talk about it first. Grima, in my opinion, doesn't deserve a larger part in Rohan's warfare: he is only a spy, and they usually work on their own so having him summon Traitors would be unnecessary. I see that he corrupted many men at Theoden's court but I don't beliebe he did so very often outside Edoras. Also, I understand the desire for a scouting power/option but with the other negative the Sentry-post has, it turns in something rather unwanted: remember that currently Theoden's corrupted powers only support his troops for the better, because they still follow their king. So, giving debuffs to normal troops would make Rohan's infantry only worse.
What I do like is the improved units of the 'cleansed' outpost, I agree that Rohan needs better infantry (besides the elite Royal Guard), but I'd like to see it implemented differently.

The only two I liked due to their completeness were the 'Big Village' and the 'Outlaw / Royal Boundary Camp.'  I would propose to mix elements of the Big Village with the Outlaw Camp.

Outlaw / Royal Boundary Camp


I do think it important that Rohan gets a second outpost option but something in the lines of a village big or small, or a sentry/guard post type of structure.

Canis carcharothias

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #66 am: 21. Dez 2015, 23:33 »
I like the big city proposition and the outlaw camp. I assume we can have both. I just have a very poorly developed modification for the outlaw camp, but I don't know with certainty if it is possible to develop, I just want to share it:

-Without freed Theoden-

-It spawns outlaw riders in hordes (2 or 3). They are heroic units, really powerful ones, but you cannot control them directly. They roam, like creeps, but with a really big area, attacking foes; a kind of defensive units that guard an specific area, like in the film.
-Maybe they plunder enemies, in a way that they are showing their king their respect, offering him the spoils of war to regain their honor, like it was usual in exiled medieval knights (like "el Cid"). I know that Middle Earth doesn't equal with the real world, but there are some parallels.

-With freed Theoden-
You get control over the outlaw riders and now you can train them in the camp (limit of three units, continuous spawn stops). You are now also able to train Éomer and the spies.

One little thing about your proposal, KryPtik: I think that healing the king, being that ability a spell from the spellbook, should not be negative.
« Letzte Änderung: 22. Dez 2015, 00:01 von Canis carcharothias »

Elite KryPtik

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #67 am: 22. Dez 2015, 02:05 »
I never said uncorrupting Théoden was a "negative" just that keeping him corrupted for longer while focusing on other spellbook powers would be more viable with my idea.

Additionally, just because something is or is not present in the movies does not mean it is useful or not useful in the mod. A good deal of content in this mod is fan fiction, and a good deal more comes from the books. Its very possible that Grima might have setup some kind of sentinels on the borders of Rohan facing Gondor, so that if by chance any emissaries came they could be turned back. That is where this idea stems from. Additionally, the negative effects of the scout power only apply to normal troops, not traitors. If your army is comprised mainly of traitors when you have built this structure before curing Théoden, you won't receive any negative effects. It would add some diversity to Rohan, rather than the current "rush or you lose" meta.
« Letzte Änderung: 22. Dez 2015, 14:25 von Elite KryPtik »
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

TheFinalMe

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #68 am: 24. Dez 2015, 07:32 »
I think an interesting idea for the outposts would be to incorporate the three different Marks of Rohan. The first would be the King's lands and the other two would be the Eastfold and Westfold.

The big town idea would be the basis. If the player chose the village stables it would be under Eastfold control. If the player chose the infantry camp it would be Westfold. Some sort of Royal camp would be built for the final boost. This way it could add a sense of the wholeness of Rohan mustering and coming together in the fight.

Also you wouldn't necessarily have to have new units for each of the new Marks. That  would just choke up the faction. Maybe an upgrade or some other unique boost would be sufficient. This way the player would not be limited in a unit type if they were not able to get outposts. They would only receive some sort of boost for already existing units.

This way if you need to boost your horsemen you go buy an Eastfold outpost, if you need infantry boosts then you go with Westfold. I think this would add a level of tactics to the battle and not choke the faction with unnecessary stuff.   
TFM

lord_ellessar

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #69 am: 9. Jan 2016, 22:51 »
Maybe make the camp that you have at the tenth power and replace this power with something else that show the power of rohan it could be : Golden age; all units are directly at level 5 or all heroes at level 10 or both of them
« Letzte Änderung: 9. Jan 2016, 23:04 von lord_ellessar »

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #70 am: 9. Jan 2016, 23:18 »
I'm not sure this is lore friendly... or balanced gameplay wise....
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Odysseus

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #71 am: 14. Jan 2016, 02:04 »
Alright, I'll give it a shot myself.

As it stands, Rohan has all of their best units pooled in the cavalry section. While it does not have to be bad, it automatically means that Rohan's gameplay becomes one-dimensional and even more one-dimensional by your opponent because he will then spam pikes to naturally counter them. While this is sound and logical, Rohan suffers greatly from this, because their counters to upgraded pikes are very few. The only real counter they have are the limited by 3, Westfold Swordsmen, which are buggy in their combat behaviour and Rohirrim Horse Archers, which are great overall, but fail to deal with the extremes such as the Dwarven Veterans, Gondor Tower Guards in Shield Wall formation, or Uruk Shield Bearers attached to squads.

Now, besides the raging inferno about buffing Rohan cavalry in the balance and suggestions section, I think it would be better to buff Rohan's counters to pikes via an additional outpost first and foremost. How so? Because if you field the proper counters, your opponent should not be able to spam pikes in the first place or any unit for that particular matter.

Here's my attempt:
I like the idea of some kind of Town Center. It will be the cheapest Outpost available for any faction, priced at 900-1000. It will focus on improving peasants to allow them to better accompany Rohirrim in MG and LG.
1. The Outpost can, by default, or via an upgrade increase the income of all peasant farms by 25-30-35%. It's a rough estimate, but it will do for now.
2. Through another cheap upgrade or by default, Peasants have their banner carriers replaced by Yeoman Captains that boosts the  appropriate battalion with a 20-25% damage increase in combat against their counter. So, Peasants will do 25% more damage to Pikes, while Farmhands will do 25% more damage to cavalry. This, in accordance with their upgrades.
3. A final upgrade would allow the reduction of upgrade costs for Peasants by around 33-50%. Now, this might sound like a lot, and it probably is, but Peasants are pretty weak. They also lose a lot of utility and staying power in the late game.

The building will repair itself by percentages, meaning faster than the regular rebuild time (This is optional, it can be reverted if proven too strong in a whollistic perspective). This would be because the peasants living in the town hall would actively repair the damage as soon as possible. The Outpost can, through an active ability, sound a town horn by default that allows peasants in a massive radius to move at an increased speed by 20-25% to quicklier reach their targets while taking less damage from arrows by around 20-25%. This horn then goes on a decent cooldown.

Finally, the building is protected by a couple of spear throwers. Now it may sound like a lot, but once again, keep in mind that Rohan Peasants are okay at best. They could really use some extra buffs to aid alongside the Rohirrim. It will also assist in providing Rohan with some economy buffs alongside Corrupted Theoden's taxes.

They are mostly some conjectures and thoughts, so do not take them too seriously. Tell me what you think :)

Kind regards.
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Elite KryPtik

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #72 am: 14. Jan 2016, 03:29 »
I quite like this idea, do you think you can come up with an actual name for the outpost?

Its ironic you posted, because I have an outpost idea as well. It would function as a bigger Assembly Point to recruit all 3 of the Westfold units that the Captains of Rohan can recruit, namely Swordsmen, Spearmen and Cavalry. The Swordsmen would cost 350, spearmen 450 and cavalry 600, with the discount of stud farms applied to them. It would also come with an arrow tower garrisoned with 5 spear throwers like on Theodred's Towers, and would provide a discount of 20% to all upgrades per outpost, up to 40% with 2. Finally, it should generate a medium amount of resources, around 80. The cost of the outpost should be 1750 and the name is Garrison of the Westfold.

If this idea were to be implemented, then Grimbold, Elfhelm and Erkenbrand would summon Royal Guard as their bodyguard, either dismounted or mounted. I think this would improve their combat capabilities significantly and give Rohan some real heavy hitters late game. The price would naturally have to be increased to buy the guarding unit after buying the hero as well.
« Letzte Änderung: 14. Jan 2016, 08:00 von Elite KryPtik »
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Odysseus

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #73 am: 14. Jan 2016, 04:15 »
I will try to come up with something. Something fitting :P. Your idea sounds pretty good too! I'm all in for extra Royal Guards be they Westfold, Eastfold etc. Reducing upgrade costs would be a nice boon too, as always.

Although, I have one question regarding your proposal. What will happen to the regular Westfold Forward Healing Post?
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Elite KryPtik

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Re: Outpost
« Antwort #74 am: 14. Jan 2016, 06:36 »
It would remain, the only difference is that instead of summoning westfold troops the 3 captains would summon royal guard.

There have been like 10 different ideas in this thread now, surely one of them must fit? Can we maybe get the teams thoughts?
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!