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Autor Thema: The Hobbit Trilogy  (Gelesen 48979 mal)

(Palland)Raschi

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #15 am: 24. Mai 2015, 17:41 »
Zitat
Talking about Angmar and the Lonely Mountain as the 'key to conquering the North':  there is an interesting theory on what Sauron meant with that, here: http://musingsofatolkienist.blogspot.com/2015/01/gundabad-what-was-that-exactly.html?m=1

I have just read the link you had posted above and I have to say that this theory which is pointed out there does not really make sense at all.
The theory skips the problem, that Sauron would surely not count on some drawfs and a Hobbit to defeat one of the mightigest Dragons in middle earth.
So what Sauron should have done if those had never tried to recapture the lonely mountain or failed by trying to do so ?
It was almost not possible they would be successful.
But in the end Sauron is supposed to bulid his whole strategy of conquering middle earth on accidents which he noticed recently .
Please this is just absurd.

MfG Raschi

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ThorinsNemesis

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #16 am: 24. Mai 2015, 18:19 »
Actually he didn't know Smaug would be killed, he thought Azog or later Bolg would stop the Dwarves, and on the map shown in the site Sauron has intended the Lonely Mountain as a stopping point for his armies sent for Angmar, as he had been in league with Smaug as told in DOS EE. But, on their way, the armies of Azog understand Smaug is killed and change tactics: kill the Dwarves, take Erebor, and then march to Angmar, only to hear by Bolg that the Elves have come to the mountain too, sending him to Gundabad.
I know, there are no exact logical theories, but this one seems the most likely to me.

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bookworm1138

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #17 am: 24. Mai 2015, 18:27 »
- The Dwarves encounter with Smaug (the battle of the forges). Although the action looked freak'n awesome, but it literally makes no sense whatsoever; The whole point of bringing Bilbo is to sneak to the mountain the steal the gem. They were scared to death from Smaug. Why would they ever go YOLO on him!!
and then after the ridiculous golden weapon plan, why would Smaug go to kill the poor lake men. The Dwarves were right under his mercy after their "plan" to entomb him failed.

I had completely forgotten about that scene (and with good reason, considering how ludicrous it got).

- oh yes, and Alfrid the servant of the Master of Lake-Town  :-|
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TiberiusOgden

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ThorinsNemesis

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #19 am: 27. Mai 2015, 17:02 »
I saw many videos and sites on the Internet that also tell the Necromancer is going to question Gandalf about the bearers of the Three Rings of Power before Galadriel comes, I think maybe in these scenes they will make Gandalf see the vision with Smaug through the palantir  xD.

"A darkness is coming... It will spread to every corner of the land!"

TiberiusOgden

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #20 am: 27. Mai 2015, 17:13 »
they will make Gandalf see the vision with Smaug through the palantir  xD.

Just check old threads on Theonering.net - there is a broad concensus that such scene definitely won't be, because doesn't fit there and was supposed to be in DOS after Thrain sequence and before Azog sequence for dramatic effect. ;)

But yes, I would like to see as well. xD

ThorinsNemesis

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #21 am: 27. Mai 2015, 18:22 »
But why would they include it in the BOTFA Art and Design book if it won't be in the third movie?  8-|

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ThorinsNemesis

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #22 am: 27. Mai 2015, 18:40 »
Also, maybe the Dol Guldur and Laketown scenes are happening at a different time in BOTFA, so Sauron still shows the vision to Gandalf.
Another way is that PJ may make a new prologue for BOTFA in Dol Guldur, with the vision of Smaug  ;)
I doubt PJ will not include this scene in the movie, because this can give Sauron a chance to explain his intentions about Erebor, Angmar, and his 'connection' with Smaug that never were explained much in the movies. And also, because this scene would be awesome :)

"A darkness is coming... It will spread to every corner of the land!"

TiberiusOgden

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #23 am: 28. Mai 2015, 16:59 »
There is clear evidence - "Thrain" bonus soundtrack for Botfa which was supposed to be in DOS. At the end is music sequence where probably  "Palantir scene" belongs and logically such sequence was completely removed. ;)

« Letzte Änderung: 28. Mai 2015, 17:11 von TiberiusOgden »

Walküre

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #24 am: 28. Mai 2015, 18:29 »
I don't think we will be seeing any sort of scene of that kind in the EE; it was probably an initial idea that was not implemented anymore in the film, even though it would be interesting to see how it could have been portrayed.

But, the real question is, I think, whether the Palantír (the sphere that the angel-like statue of Dol Guldur seems to hold) really exists and is somehow part of the film, or it doesn't, being just a result of the speculations of the fans about a possible scene of Sauron and Saruman together  :)
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TiberiusOgden

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #25 am: 28. Mai 2015, 18:50 »
Concerning your picture with Gladys after confrontation - yes there is definitely useless cut around two - three seconds. There isn't transformation back to normal form like in the LOTR, but according to soundtrack there is completely the same music sequence.


ThorinsNemesis

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #26 am: 28. Mai 2015, 19:56 »
Well, I still hold hope that we may see this Smaug palantir scene, somehow  :(

"A darkness is coming... It will spread to every corner of the land!"

Walküre

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #27 am: 28. Mai 2015, 23:14 »
That picture of Galadriel is just a fast photogram, a tiny and little hint of how Galadriel could have been initially portrayed as a bright and ethereal being.
But we will see, maybe, this interpretation in the extended scene between the 'GO!' of Galadriel and her lying on the ground (it is clearly visible that between the two scenes there is a scene that was completely cut off), in which she will have a dialogue/confrontation with Sauron, speaking in Black Speech :)

Well, I still hold hope that we may see this Smaug palantir scene, somehow  :(

If Sauron will interrogate Gandalf about the Three Rings, he might probably tell Gandalf two or three words about Smaug or his plan  :)
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ThorinsNemesis

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #28 am: 28. Mai 2015, 23:24 »
^^Yeah, he might tell a few words about that, it will be a good enough addition to the last movie. But I think we all want(ed) to see the scene with Smaug through the palantir, in DOS or BOTFA 8-| My last guess (although still not very possible :P) is that maybe we will see this scene in a flashback, like Gandalf tells Radagast or Galadriel what he had seen through the palantir and we see a flashback scene of Smaug, what do you think?
But even if it is not inserted in the Extended Edition of BOTFA, if that scene was filmed, they could release it in the Ultimate Edition PJ was talking about at the San Diego comic-con  :P

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Walküre

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #29 am: 31. Mai 2015, 17:21 »


- Speaking of unnecessary, why is PJ trying to ship Gandalf and Galadriel? Isn't she already married to Celeborn?

- Speaking of Galadriel...



This scene, while some might think it cool, makes zero sense to me. Why is Galadriel becoming all scary in this scene? Is it because she's using Nenya? If so, then why is she turning scary-looking? And WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT IN FRONT OF SAURON? Especially since the Three Rings of the Elves were supposed to be HIDDEN! And why is she wielding the Phial of Earendil? Is that what she's using to banish Sauron? If so, why is she turning scary-looking? The Silmarils, from whence the Phial gets its light, are not evil, and I read nowhere that they were ever tainted by Morgoth or Sauron. It just feels like more of PJ making Lothlorien elves (especially Galadriel) scarier than they were in the books.



About Galadriel and Gandalf, I know that there is a general 'shipping mania' on the Internet and among 'geek' fans, as you wrote, but I honestly and personally don't see anything ambiguous between them; they only tried to portray the special relationship that exists between these two great characters, a relationship (let's call it 'platonic interest' or 'friendship' in the deepest sense of the word) that is present and has its reasons also in the almighty and universal lore  :)
Galadriel probably met and knew Olórin (the name of Gandalf in Valinor as a Maia) in Valinor, when she used to attend the Gardens of Lórien of the Vala Irmo during the Years of the Trees, and Olórin was indeed a Maia of the People of Irmo; then, in the Third Age, even though the infinite memories of Gandalf as an angel were concealed in his own mind by the Valar, Galadriel has always had a very deep and special relationship with him, because she already 'knew' him and Gandalf was the only Istar that she completely trusted and appreciated the most, knowing really well his brave and pacific nature and wisdom, the reasons he was sent to Middle Earth by the Valar to contest the power of Sauron, and Gandalf was probably naturally 'benevolent' towards her, because she is the only trace left in Middle Earth of the Light of Valinor.
I think we can say that we have solid evidences of that in the books, when she says that she would have wanted Gandalf at the head of the White Council, when she sings her famous lament for the wizard, and when she shelters him and gives him white clothes after his rebirth in the World  :)
And, speaking about the films, the scenes of the White Council and, especially, the ones of Galadriel and Gandalf together, were very dear to Philippa Boyens and mostly created by her; so, I feel we have to trust her good intentions  :)

Speaking about the appearance of Galadriel in BOTFA, I feel I have written a ton of posts about it both here, on ModDB and Youtube, but this difficult matter doesn't really have an absolute explanation, unless PJ gives us a clear answer  :P
So, instead of writing pages and pages about the pure lore, I will try to answer you according to very film lore and script, because this is the most reasonable way, I think, otherwise we should consider all the Hobbit trilogy as innacurate and wrong :)

1. Let's start with saying that I agree with you, I would have preferred a bright and 'angelic' concept, in line with the nature of Galadriel and her powers :)
And this was, I read, the initial idea of Philippa Boyens, but, as for many other elements of all the Hobbit trilogy, the 'grotesque' view and style of Guillermo del Toro influenced everything and somehow 'forced' PJ's hand to even give the films a general dark, grotesque, ironic and 'creepy' tone, having been him also a director of splatter horror films.
I think, nevertheless, that some traces and hints of the previous concept of Galadriel have still remained and are still visible.
For example, when she orders Radagast to flee from Dol Guldur and goes 'GO!' or when she turns back to her normal form after the banishment of Sauron (a fast photogram).



2. According to the script of the film, the energy and strength of Galadriel were constantly being drained by the evil atmosphere of Dol Guldur and the powers of Sauron, darkening her and her ethereal aura.
She also, during the banishment, takes a form that it's meant to show the connection between her and the Water (Nenya); and that's why, also for the reasons stated in the previous point, that she becomes a ghostly, dark and blue mermaid with seaweed clothes, totally not suitable and in contradiction with the phial she's holding and its meaning, but at the same time, quite cool and interesting.


3. Galadriel taking a dark and terrible form has somehow become a canon of PJ films, even if it is not very much lore accurate; in LOTR, though, she still takes a dark and terrible form, but she's also majestic and beautiful at the same time (as Tolkien describes the scene in the books), the true definition of the 'Sublime'.
She also wears a silver armour, symbolising her royal and fiery nature (I obviously prefer the LOTR concept  :P) :)


4. About the hidden Three Rings and the fact that Galadriel openly shows and uses Nenya, we have to consider that some important scenes of the Dol Guldur sequence were cut off (thing that I didn't like at all).
In the EE we will probably see Sauron interrogating the chained Gandalf about the Three Rings and their bearers, the Three Rings being openly shown and used and a confrontation between Galadriel and Sauron (while Elrond and Saruman are still fighting, after the flight of Gandalf and Radagast) in which Galadriel will take a bright form and will confront Sauron speaking in Black Speech, openly showing and using Nenya.

WETA's concept:

Hope I helped you  :)
Galadriel is my favourite character, can't you tell?  :D
« Letzte Änderung: 21. Nov 2015, 17:00 von DieWalküre »
Che solo amore e luce ha per confine