[en] The Prancing Pony > The Lord of the Rings
The Hobbit Trilogy
korner:
--- Zitat von: LordDainIronfoot am 27. Aug 2015, 09:36 ---it is a MOVIE and some things are made just to look cool and be liekd by the audiance!The same goes t othe Evles jumping infront the Dwarven Shield Wall,was it tacticaly wise no,but was it dramatic and cool looking yes!It is a Movie after all!
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Correct!
And everyone has the right to like that or not.
And everyone in this forum has the right to express if he likes it or not.
I don´t like it, you like it. That´s ok. What is the problem about it?
LordDainIronfoot:
Exactly you are absolutely right!The point is that the fact that you do not like it doesnt make it unbelieveable,inconviniet or impossible! :)
You can just say "I do not like it,it doesnt suit my taste and imagination of the battle" Thats all,not going all "It is stupid" ,"It is not possible from physics aspect,from Magical aspect" and next " It is not convinient" ! :)
Just express you opinion and say you don't like it,but dont try to convince other poeple not to like it too by saying that it is not possible and etc.! :)
Have a nice day! :) See you around mate! :) Greeting from the Lord of the Iron Hills! :)
korner:
--- Zitat von: LordDainIronfoot am 27. Aug 2015, 09:51 ---Exactly you are absolutely right!The point is that the fact that you do not like it doesnt make it unbelieveable,inconviniet or impossible! :)
You can just say "I do not like it,it doesnt suit my taste and imagination of the battle" Thats all,not going all "It is stupid" ,"It is not possible from physics aspect,from Magical aspect" and next " It is not convinient" ! :)
Just express you opinion and say you don't like it,but dont try to convince other poeple not to like it too by saying that it is not possible and etc.! :)
Have a nice day! :) See you around mate! :) Greeting from the Lord of the Iron Hills! :)
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And you are not trying to convince other people ;)? come on...
You may say you like the ballista and that in your opinion it works in Middle Earth and you like seeing more battle scenes in the EE.
I may say that I find it stupid and for me it does not work in Middle Earth and that I´d prefer to see more character development instead of more battle scenes in the EE.
That´s how it started, then came the big argument (not started by me).
Gnomi:
--- Zitat --- Dwarves didnt use a little magic there! :-)
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As far as I know it's stated in the silmarillion that dwarves were really skilled and many thought that it would be magic, but the dwarves always hated the elves for being able to use magic, while they weren't themselves.
Concerning the gates of Moria:
Narvi created the doors and hide them, as dwarves were able to create gates you can't see.
Celebrimbor added the moon-glyphes and the password, so that the doors only open when you said the right words.^^
@ Gandalf the gray:
yeah, THEY are no smiths... but I wanted to make the point that there are still elves from the first age - nowhere is stated that all elven smiths from the first age are gone, some of them could still be alive.
@ DieWalküre:
I agree with you. Meant exactly that.^^ I know that tolkien's magic is a bit more subtil and the magic aren't harry potter like fireballs, but more things we would call skills, talents and so on.
--- Zitat ---I just personally think that, though interesting these discussions could ever be, at the end of the day, speaking about the Tolkien's Universe, it could be really pointless and counterproductive having this kind of approach to these themes, mainly related to pure logic and scientific methods.
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Well, for me this is the most interesting part about lord of the rings. There is nearly nothing illogical in it and this is the thing which makes lotr different to most of nowerdays fantasy stories.
If you look at the maps: Everything fits perfectly and if you look at the time they use for wandering through middleearth:
It's realistic. (not like the 'teleport to Gundabad and back' of the third movie)
Additionally all the names of rivery, mountains and so on are also always fitting.
F.e. the Carnen, sindarin for redwaters:
Its spring was in the iron hills. When are rivers called something with red in real world?
They need to have a red touch. When do they have it? When they run through or their spring is in an area with a lot of iron. (same for white with chalk)
He always used our own world for every single part of his story and therefore everything seems really fitting and realistic.(the only part which is truely anrealistic is shelob, as such spiders can't exist, at least if she's built up like a normal spider. But that's something the older folks, who created mythology weren't aware of)
Additionally there are many absracts from biologists and geologists about middleearth, where they've proven things "realistic".^^
And the elven languages are even used in universities to show students how languages changes over time.
So everything he did can be applied in our own world. Perhaps only in an abstract way, but it can and the same way back.
That's why I think that it's important and why I can't enjoy Jackson's movies as much, as he doesn't look at it in the same way.
But on the other hand... perhaps it's just that we germans are unfunny and can't just enjoy such things without thinking about engineering... :D
@ Fine:
Agree with that.
@ LordDainIronfoot:
Yes, it's a movie. But that doesn't mean that you're correct. :P
I ersonally don't like the movie because of many of those scenes. I know that some people like it, but nearly all of my friends don't like the movies because of those scenes.
Just because you 'can' do some things doesn't mean you should. Of course there could be a battleship landing in middleearth and kill everything. It would look really cool. But should they do it? Definitely know.
Everyone has his own boarder what should be done and what not. Those things are definitely beyond my boarder. You still like it, as you have different boarders.
I also disliked the elves jumping over the dwarves because of the same reason:
It was stupid, illogical and just added to look cool. Imo without this scene the movie would be better.
I know that it's a movie, but I think the movie would be better without those scenes. That's why I'm talking about them. ;) I don't want a boring, but realistic movie. You can see in the lord of the rings that there are many really cool scenes and that jackson can create fantastic non-fighting and fighting scenes without such things. (of course they were also a bit unrealistic, but the scenes didn't scream: "LOOK! I'M UNREALISTIC, BUT I'M COOL. I'M SO COOOOOL AND THAT'S WHY I'M HERE"
Similar to the magic of tolkien I like it much more when those scenes are a bit more subtile and you can think of yourself: "Hey, those scenes were cool", without them saying it themselves.
It's just that everyone has a different taste. I just wanted to explain why I don't like them, as we "Hobbit-haters" are always told to be "so hateful, just because it's something new and without a real reason".
Wel, I have my reasons and I wanted to explain them. I like the lotr movies more, because they weren't so overloaded with special effects and those "cool" scenes and because they were more down-to-earth.
And I don't like the hobbit-movies because of the same reasons. :P I can understand that people don't have a problem with that, but I have. If I want to see such things I play warcraft or watch similar movies. But mostly I prefer "realistic" stories like lotr (or if we talk about games: Gothic, Dragon Age, Dead Space...)
I think I have already made the comparison:
The hobbit and lotr movies are as different as warcraft and gothic. One is more or less realistic, the other one is pure fantasy. Both things can be really good on it's own way, but you don't have to like both. As the lotr books were more similar to the lotr-movies (and gothic) I would have liked a similar approach in the movies and hoped that the style would be similar to the lotr movies.
Sadly it wasn't like that.
I will stop now talking about it, as I don't want to force anyone to dislike the movies. If you can enjoy the movies: Do it! I'm happy for you :)
But I will always enjoy the lotr-triology MUCH more. I just wanted you to undrstand why I personally don't like them (you can still like them, but understand why someone don't like them). I hope at least some understood my point. As many of the other team members share many of my points this was also to prevent some of the possible suggestions. :P
PS:
By saing "It's not possible" I also don't want to force enemies to dislike the movies. You can always like the movies even though there are unrealistic parts in it. But there are just MANY parts in it which are unrealistic and noone can tell me that those parts are realistic and they weren't added just to look cool. :P I jus wanted to point out that those scenes are the reason why I don't like it. And LordDainIronfoot:
You aren't better than us. :D If korner and me are trying to convince people that the movies are bad (note again: this was NOT my goal), then you're trying the opposite all the time.
LordDainIronfoot:
--- Zitat von: korner am 27. Aug 2015, 09:58 ---
--- Zitat von: LordDainIronfoot am 27. Aug 2015, 09:51 ---Exactly you are absolutely right!The point is that the fact that you do not like it doesnt make it unbelieveable,inconviniet or impossible! :)
You can just say "I do not like it,it doesnt suit my taste and imagination of the battle" Thats all,not going all "It is stupid" ,"It is not possible from physics aspect,from Magical aspect" and next " It is not convinient" ! :)
Just express you opinion and say you don't like it,but dont try to convince other poeple not to like it too by saying that it is not possible and etc.! :)
Have a nice day! :) See you around mate! :) Greeting from the Lord of the Iron Hills! :)
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And you are not trying to convince other people ;)? come on...
You may say you like the ballista and that in your opinion it works in Middle Earth and you like seeing more battle scenes in the EE.
I may say that I find it stupid and for me it does not work in Middle Earth and that I´d prefer to see more character development instead of more battle scenes in the EE.
That´s how it started, then came the big argument (not started by me).
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Yes I am trying!have I said that I don't try!?But the reason I try is that you and some other people said it is not possible by physics and such things!And deiced to explain it and prove that it is possible,thats all,but I never said "It is possible so you must like it!"
Please make a difference between proving something and trying to force opinion on others!
And Gnomi I know you all hate the Movies and ME too but that doesnt make it bad Movie!I dislike many Plot changes that PJ did I really do and do dislike how Legolas is like some kind of Superman!
So a Battleship could land and destroy everything!?WOW!I agree but I do not see how adding actually a pracical weapon like Ballista with somewhow theoretical ammunition makes it bad or something similar to a battleship!?Thats not a valid point at all!And what is so unrealistic about a Ballistas!!I think we were abel to prove that is quite posible,hard but possible to some degree! I agree a lot of scenes were not needed but I do not think those Ballistas are one of them!
I too find the over use of CGI too much,and some exxagarated things too but those Ballistas are not one of them to me!
You never triyed to convince them that they are bad Gnomi but you just let your dislikenes of the Movie lead your actions!Just say you dislike it and doesnt suit you but do not involve physics and all possible matter in it!!You can think whatever you want of me good or bad,my opinion is my opinon and I am not the only one who stood against you and korner so stop putting all the blame on me as always!I really had different opinion of Edain Team and it Fans,now I am not so sure of it!
Have a nice day and feel free to dislike me as much as you pleaese just because I have different opinion than you stand for my believes! :)
--- Zitat ---I think I have already made the comparison:
The hobbit and lotr movies are as different as warcraft and gothic. One is more or less realistic, the other one is pure fantasy. Both things can be really good on it's own way, but you don't have to like both. As the lotr books were more similar to the lotr-movies (and gothic) I would have liked a similar approach in the movies and hoped that the style would be similar to the lotr movies.
Sadly it wasn't like that.
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I agree with it!The LOTR was better in those aspects but what can we do times change and tastes change!Now Cinema is all about cool CGI effects and sadly in The Hobbit they overused!But still Movies were quite good in some parts and especialyl the Visuals(I mean Cotusme,Armors,Cast and such)
I just want to remind that the main topic here was about the Ballista and were they possible to create and use,not about what we do not like in the Movies and why we hate them,thats going to far off topic I tihnk at least! :)
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