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The Hobbit Trilogy

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Thartom:
But isnt it a bit unlogical that in DG should stand a Palantir? I mean, lets see, there are 7 stones in middle-earth at all:

- one is in Minas Morgul. Nobody was ever interested in removing then.
1
- one in in Minas Tirith. The governors would never give it away.
2
-one is in Isengard. Saruman wouldnt dare to give his artefact away neither.
3
- two are lost in the ocean when avendui and his ship sank.
5
- one stone has fallen into the Anduin when Osgiliath was destroyed.
6
- one was placed near Lindon and couldnt be used to communicate with the other Palantiri.
7
So there is no Stone with unknown place that could have been kept secret in Dol Guldur. It´s a bit like the idea of the duel between Gandalf and Sauron: In cinema it looks cool, but if you think twice about it, you cant combine the "old" middle-earth with almost no visible magic and with the "cinema" middle-earth where whole stone walls get destroyed in seconds.

ThorinsNemesis:
I think the intent was that a palantir wasn't placed in Isengard in the movies, it was placed long ago in Dol Guldur. As its Numenorian inhabitants left the fortress they left behind the palantir (due to unknown reasons) and much later, after the Necromancer had come, after Gandalf sees the vision with Smaug, and after the White Council battle, Saruman would see the palantir and take it to Isengard. This theory would also give a more logical reason for Gandalf in FOTR to say 'The palantir is a dangerous tool'. I may be wrong, but I think this was PJ's intent.
And in any way, PJ has said that they always try to add more of Tolkien's locations in the movies and enhance their stories (thus the scene with Gundabad). I may be the only one but I like PJ's interpretation of Dol Guldur - a ruined, abandoned Numenorian fortress hosting a forgotten palantir.  :)

Thartom:
I like the design of Dol Guldur as destroyed fortress too, but the point is it wasnt built by the numenorians. I think the elves, especially the "patriotic" Thranduil, would never have allowed a human´s fortress right there in the middle of their kingdom. And the elves could defend themselves very well even without help, why need a fortress there?
Moreover, even though Tranduil isnt that much interested in the world outside his forest, would he really leave such a treasure behind (and the elves would have found the Palantir in the abandoned ruins)? And think about this: Sauron broke even Saruman, prevents him from doing the same with a normal elf, when the king tried to use the stone?
Besides that the numenorians would never leave such a thing behind, they also didnt throw away the Orthanc-Stone when they had no use for it at the moment, they still protected it very well by sealing the tower where it was placed.

ThorinsNemesis:
In the movies Dol Guldur is an old Numenorian fortress - PJ said it in the Appendices and Chronicles books.
My theory is that some Numenorians from Arnor accompanied the Elves (Thranduil and his father) on their journey east to Mirkwood. Dol Guldur still was Oropher's home, but it was probably built by the Numenoreans in movie lore.
And about the palantir, they didn't know Sauron could return. Probably the grief-stricken Thranduil just moved north, and Dol Guldur over time became abandoned, I don't think Thranduil would know the power of the palantir, or he wouldn't care about it, so it was left there.

Walküre:

--- Zitat von: Thartom am 23. Okt 2015, 18:54 ---So there is no Stone with unknown place that could have been kept secret in Dol Guldur. It´s a bit like the idea of the duel between Gandalf and Sauron: In cinema it looks cool, but if you think twice about it, you cant combine the "old" middle-earth with almost no visible magic and with the "cinema" middle-earth where whole stone walls get destroyed in seconds.


--- Ende Zitat ---

Yes, if we strictly refer to the pure graphical outcome of that confrontation, many things could be said.

But, if you deeply look into the roots and pillars of Middle Earth and Arda, you will see that destructive displays of Magic from magical beings (as Tolkien intended Magic) are really evocative and significant displays of their inner superior Nature.
Gandalf, as an Istar, is nonetheless allowed to use directly and destructively Magic to defend himself from imminent and definitely beyond-normality threats.

These types of usage of Magic were naturally more frequent and common in the Elder Days and before, when the World was still 'Young' and not disenchanted and slowly corrupted like in the late Third Age; although, even in the Third Age, we can behold pure Magic in its destructive form, when our Galadriel, for example, made her last act of Power and threw down the Walls of Dol Guldur and purified it from the Memory of Sauron  8-)

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