Murin and Drar,do they need/deserve a change!!

[LordDainIronfoot]

Well still I tihnk the ballistas will be better!

[ringbearer]

These ballistas would be awsome and unique , and now maybe something new for murin's last ability? O:)

Its awesome right now, paralize everyone in big area, i mean, combined with the abilitie which makes area damage, you can make a massacre.

I'm not sayin' that it's useless but just give it some uniqueness , many heroes have this ability already and as murin is made-up hero , he can has something different and not strictly lore-friendly. If you know what i mean

[LordDainIronfoot]

Nicely said mate! And still I tihnk it fits better for a Dwarven Hero to summon a Iron Ballistas than falling rocks from the sky And indeed it will ake Iron hills more uniqe and the only other faction with Ballistas ,cuz for now only isengard has them and they are from the Evil Factions so it will be nice for at least one Good faction to have something similar to that!

[Tienety]

These ballistas would be awsome and unique , and now maybe something new for murin's last ability? O:)

Its awesome right now, paralize everyone in big area, i mean, combined with the abilitie which makes area damage, you can make a massacre.

I'm not sayin' that it's useless but just give it some uniqueness , many heroes have this ability already and as murin is made-up hero , he can has something different and not strictly lore-friendly. If you know what i mean

Yes, you're right. This ability isn't very unique.

Maybe something like this:
Level 10: Stubborn Dwarf: Murin plunges into battle with enthusiasm and destroys everything in his path. He gets shortly knockback, +100% attack speed and + 25% more speed.

This ability is from my concept for Thorin III. but maybe this is more fit for Murin.

[ringbearer]

i would suggest something like : murin gets knock back attack for some time ( no dwarwen hero has it except durin ) and allied units get +30%attack speed.

[Draco100000]

He isnt support, and 30% of attack speed increase is too much. Maybe he can get Knockbak and 20% more attack speed. This could be good, but also with a damage increased by 25% which can combined with shield attack to get a very big damage in area, making him more than a simple hero. Im agree with this completely. The balistas fit more for Drar, who can loose his sabotage abilitie for the summon of 2 iron balistas.

[LordDainIronfoot]

Yes Drar could summon 2 Iron Ballistas but can Max 6 of them!It will be nice!! :-)

[Tienety]

He isnt support, and 30% of attack speed increase is too much. Maybe he can get Knockbak and 20% more attack speed. This could be good, but also with a damage increased by 25% which can combined with shield attack to get a very big damage in area, making him more than a simple hero. Im agree with this completely. The balistas fit more for Drar, who can loose his sabotage abilitie for the summon of 2 iron balistas.

So something like this for Murin?
Level 10: Stubborn Dwarf: Murin plunges into battle with enthusiasm and destroys everything in his path. He gets shortly knockback and +20% attack speed.

Why Drar needs two ballistas? I think this is too strong for level 5. Drar's ballista can be perfect for surprise attack with tunnel system. Drar come out from the tunnel, summon ballista and destroy building.

Yes Drar could summon 2 Iron Ballistas but can Max 6 of them!It will be nice!! :-)

I think that one is enough. This ability should work similarly as Dain's battlewagons in Erebor.

[LordDainIronfoot]

Well,1 Ballista will be fine but still I think you should be able to summon 1 with a cooldown on the Ability and you gould have the Max of 5-6 Ballistas at the same time!
And another thing about Drar,since he is Masterfull Archer he gets only a Bow and Axe Tooggle will make him more like Ranger,so why not make a cimpromise and make him able to use Axe to defend himself when an Enemy is too close to him,then he gets an Axe which he can cary on his Hip or Back and automaticly deffend himself !?

[Gandalf The Gray]

i think they both need some visual change and drar needs a  CrossBow

[Tienety]

I have some new better ideas for these two heroes:

Murin:
He is a great hero with good abilities except War Cry. This ability isn't unique.
I have idea for new better ability for him:

Level 10: Elite Ram riders
Murin temporarily summon one battalion of Ram riders with Slayers design of riders for 30 seconds.

I think that Ram riders need something more than two seconds in Murin's ability on level 5.

Drar:
I think that Drar is too weak and not very useful in game. Drar isn't very effective against building and Bard is better archer. I think that two heroes only with bow is too many for Iron Hills subfaction, Drar or Bard need melee attack.
I have some new better ability for Drar.

Drar abilities:
Level 1: Toggle Arrows:
Switching between Iron arrows and fire arrows.

Fire arrow:
Drar gets +50% damage against buildings and -25% attack speed

Iron arrows:
Drar gets +50% damage against units.

Level 1: Two Wanderers(Same as now)

Level 5: Sabotage
Drar send a group of dwarves to sabotage enemy buildings.
The prodution of a target hostile Buiding is ceased

Level 10: Incendiarism(available only with Fire arrow)
Drar shots a few fire arrow to selected enemy buildings.
Building will burn and gets great damage.

Level 10: Barbed arrow(available only with Iron arrows)
Drar shooting his special barbed arrow to selected unit or hero.
Enemy unit or hero gets medium damage, -20% movement speed and -10% armor for 10 second.

Incendiarism and Barbed arrow abilities are recharge together. You can't use both abilites at the same time.

What do you think about this?

[LordDainIronfoot]

i think they both need some visual change and drar needs a  CrossBow

Some Visual Change will be nice! But about the Crossbow,I like it as a weapon for their Units but not for a Hero!

I have some new better ideas for these two heroes:

Murin:
He is a great hero with good abilities except War Cry. This ability isn't unique.
I have idea for new better ability for him:

Level 10: Elite Ram riders
Murin temporarily summon one battalion of Ram riders with movie design for 30 seconds.

I think that Ram riders need something more than two seconds in Murin's ability on level 5.

Drar:
I think that Drar is too weak and not very useful in game. Drar isn't very effective against building and Bard is better archer. I think that two heroes only with bow is too many for Iron Hills subfaction. Drar can be new main archer and better building destroyer. Iron Hils can get new outpost with new hero without bow:
Assembly Hall for Iron Hills

Drar abilities:
Level 1: Toggle Arrows:
Switching between Iron arrows and fire arrows.

Fire arrow:
Drar gets +50% damage against buildings but also gets -50% damage against units.

Iron arrows:
Drar gets +50% damage against units but also gets -50% damage against buildings.

Level 1: Two Wanderers(Same as now)

Level 5: Sabotage
Drar send a group of dwarves to sabotage enemy buildings.
The prodution of a target hostile Buiding is ceased

Level 10: Incendiarism(available only with Fire arrow)
Drar shots a few fire arrow to selected enemy buildings.
Building will burn and gets great damage.

Level 10: Barbed arrow(available only with Iron arrows)
Drar shooting his special barbed arrow to selected unit or hero.
Enemy unit or hero gets medium damage, -20% movement speed and -10% armor for 10 second.

Incendiarism and Barbed arrow abilities are recharge together. You can't use both abilites at the same time.

What do you think about this?

I like those ideas!But if I may add few changes!
Iron Arrow should have a little Extra DMG against Heavy Armored Units,after all it is a Special Kind of Dwarven Iron Arrow! May be like 10-15% DMG against Heavy Armored Units next to the other bonus!?
And I agree that Ram Riders need proper intagrattion for more than 1sec run The LV 10 Ability looks fine but I think those Riders deseve permament place!I think he shold be able to summon 1 Battalion Permamently with cooldown and be able to summon again up to the max of 3-4 Battalions of Ram Riders !
And what you think about my suggestion for Drars auto-deffence!?
Greeting from Iron Hills mates!

[Adrigabbro]

I have some new better ideas for these two heroes:

Murin:
He is a great hero with good abilities except War Cry. This ability isn't unique.
I have idea for new better ability for him:

Level 10: Elite Ram riders
Murin temporarily summon one battalion of Ram riders with movie design for 30 seconds.

I think that Ram riders need something more than two seconds in Murin's ability on level 5.

Drar:
I think that Drar is too weak and not very useful in game. Drar isn't very effective against building and Bard is better archer. I think that two heroes only with bow is too many for Iron Hills subfaction. Drar can be new main archer and better building destroyer. Iron Hils can get new outpost with new hero without bow:
Assembly Hall for Iron Hills

Drar abilities:
Level 1: Toggle Arrows:
Switching between Iron arrows and fire arrows.

Fire arrow:
Drar gets +50% damage against buildings but also gets -50% damage against units.

Iron arrows:
Drar gets +50% damage against units but also gets -50% damage against buildings.

Level 1: Two Wanderers(Same as now)

Level 5: Sabotage
Drar send a group of dwarves to sabotage enemy buildings.
The prodution of a target hostile Buiding is ceased

Level 10: Incendiarism(available only with Fire arrow)
Drar shots a few fire arrow to selected enemy buildings.
Building will burn and gets great damage.

Level 10: Barbed arrow(available only with Iron arrows)
Drar shooting his special barbed arrow to selected unit or hero.
Enemy unit or hero gets medium damage, -20% movement speed and -10% armor for 10 second.

Incendiarism and Barbed arrow abilities are recharge together. You can't use both abilites at the same time.

What do you think about this?

You are right about Murin, War Cry is meh...
But I'd rather see Dain able to summon Ram Riders instead of Murin. His last ability could be something like a temporary bonus, or area of effect attack.

As for Drar, I agree with you, supposing there is a nice concept of Assembly Hall. The idea of switching bewteen fire and regular arrows is cool, but there is no reason for fire arrows to deal less damage to units. I have something in mind like Fire arrows provide more damage against buildings but at the expense of attack speed. Makes more sense. But the idea is here! 
Sabotage is very fine, I like it. However, I'd rather see Drar able to summon one Ballista instead of training it in Assembly Hall. Indeed it would be too much of a great advantage compared to Ered Luin and Erebor. I believe that would be a perfect level 10 ability.

[LordDainIronfoot]

The Ballista can be intigrated in the Siegeworks if my thread about Siege Units ofthe Dwarves is liked and used,and not in the Assembly Halls!
Well we have suggested an idea about Ram Riders and Dain but if it not used this one is ratehr good!
Now his Fire Arrow can have extra damage against buildings and a little more dmg against Light Armored Units while his Iron Arrow will have Exrtra DMG against Heavy Armored Units!

[Adrigabbro]

I'm sorry but I disagree with your idea about dwarven siege weapons. I think it's quite fine as it is. Thus I believe the best way to put the movie Ballista in the mod is with one of Drar's ability.

If the team doesn't want Dain to summon Ram riders, then Murin is a good choice, ye.