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Autor Thema: Imladris' Ring Hero  (Gelesen 10255 mal)

Offline CynasFan

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #15 am: 10. Jul 2015, 18:23 »
Durin is mortal, but he gets revived by his sons named also Durin, because they all was like the first one. So the dwarfes thougt, Durin is immortal and Aule brings him back every time, to receive the spirit of the dwarfes.
Elves are immortal, if they go to the West, but they can´t receive.
I hope you can unterstand this and that´s also the ground, how the Edain team argues.
Greetings from Germany, CynasFan
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Offline Maraelion

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #16 am: 10. Jul 2015, 18:23 »
Then why should LONG-DEAD Durin be revived by the one ring?

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Durin

Durin is a dwarven reincarnation legend. So Edain just implemented this myth, which is quite lorewise.
Reviving an dead elf isn't lore wise at all, because there are no hints for a revived elf in Middle-Earth.
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Offline hoho96

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #17 am: 11. Jul 2015, 01:07 »
Because Durin is DEATHLESS, or so do the Dwarves believe.
Basically each King Durin is actually the same Durin reincarnated. So it isn't that far fetched to imagine Durin returning to his people.

Offline DieWalküre

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #18 am: 11. Jul 2015, 23:17 »
Some suggestions:
Manwe
Celebrimbor
Gil-Galad
Eärendil


That's all i could've think of  :D :D

Unfortunately (or fortunately) the lore is very clear and 'nuclear' about proposals like yours.

Celebrimbor and Gil-galad have been dead for more than 3000 years by the time of the War of the Ring, and are thus either still mourning in the Halls of Mandos as spirits, or reborn in Valinor as Blessed Elves; they are anyway in Aman, and thus are bound to remain in this continent forever, as the 'supreme rule' of the World for the Elves ineluctably implies, and can't then be revived or return to Middle Earth (the spell 'The Last Alliance' only summons Gil-galad temporarily, and it is a tribute/reconstruction of the Second Age).
Anyone who reaches Aman, both due to Death (Halls of Mandos) or Return (Grey Havens), can't leave this land and return to Arda (apart from very few exceptions).

Eärendil is of course alive, as an immortal elf, but was ordered by the Valar to guard forever the Skyes of Arda and Aman with his Enchanted Ship, and thus can't go back to Middle Earth.

Manwë, eventually, is the most unlikely scenario, for very important and solid reasons.

- He is the King of the Valar and the King of the whole World, and he could virtually do and dispose anything he wants due to his absolute authority; but the Valar chose not to get directly involved anymore in the problems of Middle Earth, after the destructive (but victorious) War of Wrath, and chose not to personally fight anymore in any battle even before the First Age, since they sent an army of Vanyar and the Maia Eönwë in Beleriand.
The powers of the Valar is holy and good, but still destructive in war; if any of them fought in Middle Earth during the Third Age, it would cause a complete cataclysm.

- How in the world an evil and inferior (for a point of view of a Vala) object, as it is the One Ring, should summon Manwë (the Supreme Authority in the World), or even be worn by him?  :o

- Manwë is a Vala, is not an Elf.
He is the leader of both Arda and Aman, but he truly 'belongs' to Valinor, the Blessed Realm in which live mostly Vanyar and Maiar; Imladris (Noldor) is, on the other way, related and 'belongs' to Eldamar (specifically Tirion), which is still a Land/Realm of Aman, but it is not Valinor.
I know that the difference would appear to be slight, but it is important.

Then, given these facts, the only 'reasonable' solution by far is still Elrond with the One Ring.

Hope to have been useful  :)
« Letzte Änderung: 11. Jul 2015, 23:23 von DieWalküre »

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #19 am: 12. Jul 2015, 08:08 »
Eärendil is of course alive
Of course that he is, yesterday was online.

but was ordered by the Valar to guard forever the Skyes of Arda and Aman with his Enchanted Ship, and thus can't go back to Middle Earth.
Yes, it's nice, but primarily he is leader of the Edain team ... by the way ...


Offline Gnomi

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #20 am: 12. Jul 2015, 15:23 »
@ Tiberius:
Our leader is "Ealendril", not "Earendil"

There is a small difference, our boss has a "lendr" in the middle, but the character in the silmarillion has a "rend" in the middle. :P

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #21 am: 12. Jul 2015, 15:38 »
My light Galadriel is only trying to confuse "dark galadriel"  xD
I know about the difference, but honestly - I sometimes have tendency to write "Earendil" (and many moddb users, as I found, as well) ... so I've solved this problem some time ago that I simply write "Ea"  8-| ... when I am talking generally about him. :P

Offline DieWalküre

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #22 am: 12. Jul 2015, 19:20 »
My light Galadriel is only trying to confuse "dark galadriel"  xD
I know about the difference, but honestly - I sometimes have tendency to write "Earendil" (and many moddb users, as I found, as well) ... so I've solved this problem some time ago that I simply write "Ea"  8-| ... when I am talking generally about him. :P

Did you seriously think that you could have confused me with an easy and cheap trick like that, being in my natural element (Valinor/Elves of Aman/First Age)?  :D
And 'my' Galadriel is not dark, but Sublime, one of the most dreadful, and yet immensely beautiful, thing that you could encounter in the World  8-)

@ Tiberius:
Our leader is "Ealendril", not "Earendil"

There is a small difference, our boss has a "lendr" in the middle, but the character in the silmarillion has a "rend" in the middle. :P

Actually you (both of you) are wrong my darlings  :)
It's 'Eärendil', not 'Earendil'.
You shouldn't so carelessly miss any 'ä', 'ë', 'á' or 'ó', when you talk about any Ainurin or Elven Matters  :P

So, to summarise a bit:

DieWalküre 1
TiberiusOgden 0
Gnomi 0

 ;)


TiberiusOgden

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #23 am: 12. Jul 2015, 19:29 »
We know, but we have other things to do around here, so we are trying to write sparingly. Sometimes. 8-| :P

Offline Ealendril

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #24 am: 14. Jul 2015, 10:25 »
My light Galadriel is only trying to confuse "dark galadriel"  xD
I know about the difference, but honestly - I sometimes have tendency to write "Earendil" (and many moddb users, as I found, as well) ... so I've solved this problem some time ago that I simply write "Ea"  8-| ... when I am talking generally about him. :P
Ea is definitly ok for me.  xD

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #25 am: 14. Jul 2015, 10:42 »
Ea is definitly ok for me.  xD
Well, I always thought that Ea is quite a modest creator. :D

Offline Linhir

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #26 am: 1. Aug 2015, 14:08 »
Soooo... maybe Elros? Elrond's twin brother which choosed life of mortal? I't could be cool, it can be done throught statue like Durin. And i know, it wouldn't be lore appropriate, but c'mon... (PS. Celebrimbor will be fine too, he could be sent back like Glorfindel.)

Offline DieWalküre

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #27 am: 1. Aug 2015, 15:35 »
Soooo... maybe Elros? Elrond's twin brother which choosed life of mortal? I't could be cool, it can be done throught statue like Durin. And i know, it wouldn't be lore appropriate, but c'mon... (PS. Celebrimbor will be fine too, he could be sent back like Glorfindel.)

Elros, as you rightly wrote, chose to follow the path of the Humans, and eventually died at almost the age of 500 years.
As you may know, once the Humans die, their souls go to the Halls of Mandos, and suddenly disappear from the World, headed to the Timeless Halls of Ilúvatar.
Elros thus can't go back in any way in the World  :)

Offline Linhir

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #28 am: 1. Aug 2015, 15:38 »
Unexplored are the ways of Eru. He could send back anyone who he wants.  xD

Offline DieWalküre

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #29 am: 1. Aug 2015, 15:57 »
Unexplored are the ways of Eru. He could send back anyone who he wants.  xD

No, it wisely doesn't intervene in the physical Universe's matters, because it has delegated these powers to the Valar, the Archangels of the World; and they decided not to intervene in the World's matters as well, after the War of Wrath  :)
We have to wait the End of the World and the Ultimate Battle, before seeing Eru in action again  8-)

P.S. I used 'it' because Eru is the only sentient being with no gender, since it is Everything  :)