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Autor Thema: Imladris' Ring Hero  (Gelesen 38426 mal)

VectorMaximus

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Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
« Antwort #60 am: 27. Jan 2016, 15:41 »
Perhaps if you captured the one ring as Imladris, you could take it to the forge and have the Noldorin Forge-masters discover its secrets, slowly increasing the strength of either your heroes or units over time as they uncover more secrets of it. Eventually, after a time the smiths would learn enough to unmake it (IE, no more bonuses). It's said that a powerful smith on par with Sauron (such as Feanor) would have been able to unmake the ring, but all such smiths in the 3rd age live in Valinor. The techniques of the rings themselves aren't evil - the will of Sauron in them is, because the same techniques made the 3. And the 3 are some of the most powerful tools of the Elves in the 3rd age, with no sign of corruption to their wearers.

But as has been said, I personally believe the Rivendell faction needs a major bonus to their faction in general when they get the one, otherwise they lose out on the power spike other factions get from their ring-hero. That's if they don't have a ring-hero, obviously.

And before I'm corrected, I'm well aware that even a team of master-smiths in the 3rd age couldn't unmake the one as I am suggesting. I'm just throwing out ideas (and as I said earlier, while generally speaking the lore should be adhered to, in some cases its okay to bend it for gameplay purposes).
"But wherefore should Middle-earth remain for ever desolate and dark, whereas the Elves could make it as fair as Eressëa, nay even as Valinor?

Walküre

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #61 am: 27. Jan 2016, 16:21 »
Yes, it's necessarily needed bending a bit the lore to fit the primary gameplay rules.
Nevertheless, it's also true that you have to find valuable lore premises to move around 'what if' situations of this kind; something that could have happened in lore (though never really happened in the canon, of course) without contradicting it, as a sort of pure speculation.

For example, you realised yourself that your proposal about blacksmiths couldn't be taken into consideration, because Tolkien himself assures us that no one of the same skills and knowledge of Fëanor will ever walk on Arda again.

The 'core issue' behind this whole suggestion is basically the really contradictory conflict between the nature/essence of Rivendell and the very will of using the One Ring.
Any speculation would thus be too much problematic, more than the other factions' Ring's mechanics.
So, yes, I'm sure that waiting will be eventually rewarded.

If you want to continue the discussion and gather further thoughts, you are obviously more than welcome  :)
I will be happy to 'correct' you, then, if it's necessary  :D

Linhir

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #62 am: 16. Feb 2016, 03:31 »
Maybe ring hero could be just good ol' Tom? Elrond can't find any suitable man to give him ring and send with mission to destroy, so he decide hide it. In secret he send for Tom Bombadil and passes ring to him.

Walküre

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #63 am: 16. Feb 2016, 07:50 »
Maybe ring hero could be just good ol' Tom? Elrond can't find any suitable man to give him ring and send with mission to destroy, so he decide hide it. In secret he send for Tom Bombadil and passes ring to him.


Not only does the One Ring have no effect on Tom Bombadil, but also, given that I personally consider him a Maia (and other people something even more powerful), it wouldn't expand his powers anyway.

As Gandalf says during the Council of Elrond, Tom Bombadil is not a trustworthy person for this task, for he might just lose or simply forget the One Ring by accident  :)

Saeros

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #64 am: 16. Feb 2016, 10:55 »
What if Cirdan wants the ring?
He gave his ring Narya to Gandalf as he thought that the wizard would keep it better than he would, but as the years pass the power of the Gray Havens is decreasing, so he starts making plans on how he could ask Narya back, but the chance appears to lay his hands in an even more powerful relic that whould allow his lands to flourish and rise above the mediocrity that is tormenting the Elves of the Third Age.
So he proposes to take the One for safe keeping but by holding it his soul becomes more and more corrupted and thus after a small amount of (game) time he becomes Cirdan the Shadow Elf (or something like that) and has new powers that while they give certain buffs to the units and buildings around him, at the same time they have a drawback.
Also his fighting skills are improved by far, but he looses armor or HP.

I must propose Glorfindel as the ring- hero too, but I suppose Cirdan is more suitable since he has never been in Valinor, he gave his ring willingly but with all the "ifs" I read above i suppose that this small story I wrote could happen taking under consideration the power of the One Ring and its ability to dominate even on the purest of souls.

Also I understand that this idea came a little too late probably but I wanted to make this proposal, lastly I never played the mod before the BFME1 building system was introduced (mainly because I thought BFME2 was an ultimate disappointment), so I don't know the heroes and the gameplay of Imladris, so I don't know if Cirdan is in the faction but I think that he should be as he was Gil- Galad's lieutenant and if I'm  not mistaken Lindon was Noldor lands..

Walküre

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #65 am: 16. Feb 2016, 11:52 »
I must propose Glorfindel as the ring- hero too, but I suppose Cirdan is more suitable since he has never been in Valinor, he gave his ring willingly but with all the "ifs" I read above i suppose that this small story I wrote could happen taking under consideration the power of the One Ring and its ability to dominate even on the purest of souls.


As far as I read and wrote so far, I would say that all those hypothetical situations were nonetheless characterised by a solid lore background, that makes all of them possible and not contradictory (not on a general level, at least)  :)

If you read the previous comments, you will see that I tried to give the proper explanation about why Glorfindel couldn't be a Ring Hero, and why I think it won't be so in the game.
Regarding Círdan, his usage of the One Ring would be too much contradictory, given that he doesn't have any ambitious desire of power if not guarding the Havens and guiding the few Eldar that still lingered in Middle Earth towards their final journey to the West.

Furthermore, it's highly unlikely, if not impossible, that the One Ring would have permitted the eternal endurance of the Eldar's realms; the One Ring's nature grants its bearer sensational powers, but at the cost of a gradual consumption and corruption of both mind and body (and, healing and preserving powers could never be part of its essence anyway).

Spacetyrant93

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #66 am: 16. Feb 2016, 13:28 »
Well, whatever concept the Team decided to follow for the Ring in Imladris, I'm sure it'll be interesting :) even though the anticipation's killing me...

However, I do hope Elrond is kept as an alternative. I must admit I really liked him with the Ring, and he looks damn spectacular as a High King!
Yeah, perhaps not too lore-ish, but as others have repeated the speculativeness of Ring Heroes over and over again, I believe Elrond would be as good as any other. Some make even less sense than him, lore-wise (Theoden never even saw the Ring), so I hope he can be kept, at least as an alternative :)

Saeros

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #67 am: 16. Feb 2016, 15:45 »
@ DieWalküre
Zitat
If you read the previous comments, you will see that I tried to give the proper explanation about why Glorfindel couldn't be a Ring Hero, and why I think it won't be so in the game.
I've read them all and that is why I came up with Cirdan as the ring- hero, obviously what you have said is correct but as you said
Zitat
neither Elrond nor Glorfindel have ever had any interest or thought of using the One Ring
so there could be Glorfindel as a ring- hero based on the same logic that Elrond is such.

Zitat
Regarding Círdan, his usage of the One Ring would be too much contradictory, given that he doesn't have any ambitious desire of power if not guarding the Havens and guiding the few Eldar that still lingered in Middle Earth towards their final journey to the West.
That is obvious but I tried to give a higly unlikely but plausible explanation about him wanting the One Ring.

For all the rest you posted you are once more correct since we all know by now (after all these times we're read the books and saw the movies) what the ring is capable of, but as you said
Zitat
the One Ring's nature grants its bearer sensational powers, but at the cost of a gradual consumption and corruption of both mind and body
that is why I proposed the drawbacks of Cirdan's powers given by the One Ring.

Linhir

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #68 am: 16. Feb 2016, 15:58 »
Cirdan/Glorfindel/Elrond as a ring heroes? Nah. Why? Because just one, small, simple fact about them... theyr'e too noble. They would die first, than let one ring to slowly corrupt them.

Walküre

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #69 am: 16. Feb 2016, 18:08 »
Saeros, what I wanted to say is that I and the other people involved tried to 'respect' those not specified rules/guidelines within certain lore boundaries, in order to have a rational continuity in this debate  :)

Actually, the argument is not valid.
Considering our reasoning, so far, Glorfindel couldn't be a Ring Hero because Elrond himself has high chances (high probabilities) of not being the Ring Hero of Imladris anymore.
This is what the thread is about: discussing about alternatives  ;)

Narya is the only one of the Three Rings that doesn't have a physical effect/influence on the environment in which is kept – taking into consideration the examples of the holy and timeless sanctuaries of Rivendell and Lothlórien – so that it wouldn't be logical suggesting that the One Ring could ever grant this prerogative to Círdan.
Narya never made the Havens an enchanted place.

sr_dark

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #70 am: 22. Feb 2016, 01:11 »
Whatever decision the team goes for... I hope its not something like Angmar in good version... it wouldnt be unique and i think its more interesting (and unique since the ring heroes are all different in many ways) to see a new character in the field, or an improved character (aka ring hero).

Saeros

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #71 am: 22. Feb 2016, 10:13 »
Rivendell’s Ring Function

Hello fellow Edain,
I gave some thought about the ring function of Rivendell and I came up with the idea that is presented below.

At the beginning of the game, along with the citadel there will be constructed right behind it a building, which won’t be attackable or destroyable until the ring enters it, and will be named “The Elrond’s Council”.
When the ring enters this building Elrond’s voice will be heard saying “bring forth the ring” and then the council will take place, so the player will be given two choices:

Expose the Ring’s Secrets:

If this is chosen there will be four upgrades each giving certain offensive strengths and certain defensive weaknesses to the faction.

The Dark Lord’s Malice: All leadership bonuses (by any source) outside of the fortress are nullified.

War Production: The production buildings of the fortress are more vulnerable to attacks but all their upgrades (pantry, defensive measures and production increase) are improved by 25%.

Ring’s Corruption: All heroes are faster and have their attack power increased while their abilities last longer or have greater damage (depending on each type), but at the same time the cooldowns of the abilities are 35% longer and their defense is lowered.

Desperate Times, Desperate Measures: The arrow and blade upgrades for all troops deal additional damage to military buildings and to units with heavy armor, but only moderate damage to units with ordinary armor, and buildings that produce resources.


Keep the Ring’s Secrets:

If this is chosen there will be four upgrades each giving certain defensive strengths and certain offensive weaknesses to the faction.

Celebrimbor’s Knowledge: The banner carrier and heavy armor upgrades are slightly more powerful for a small additional fee.

The Last Hope: Heroes near Rivendell buildings fight more eagerly and gain a great boost in their defense power but are significantly slower.

The World is Changing: All powers of the Palantir have their cooldowns reduced.

Noldor Defenses: The fortress is concealed by pure magic, the walls and the gate are invulnerable to siege weapons (excluding rams), the defending archers cannot shoot any arrows, but the tower expansions are able to shoot to attackers.


If  the building is attacked then Gandalf will be  heard speaking in the black speech (movie) and either the heroes that are in the council (lvl 1 with no abilities) will come out and fight the attackers, or two mixed battalions of elves dwarves and men fully upgraded. The building will have very low defensive power and as soon as it is destroyed the summoned units will disappear and the ring will pass to the unit that destroyed the building. Also the building will be destroyed if the citadel is destroyed before it.

Finally the building will rebuild itself overtime cost-free.

This way the lore is respected and the ring will be available for any other player to lay hands upon, by allowing it to stay in the game (this goes to some opinions suggesting the ring to leave the map).

I have to point out that I have absolutely no idea about modding, coding etc, so I do not know the functionality of my proposal in game, though I think that, if possible, this idea will be something unique and pretty awesome to see in Edain Mod.
« Letzte Änderung: 22. Feb 2016, 14:25 von Saeros »

Walküre

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #72 am: 23. Feb 2016, 11:32 »
Saeros, your idea is really interesting, and I really see it as a well-made attempt to go beyond the known 'Ring Hero problematic' of Imladris, as none of the faction's heroes could really be regarded as truly suitable for an intentional and personal usage of the One Ring.

But, still, I would say that your proposal doesn't resolve the contradictory idea of Imladris being benefitted by any means from the usage or the refusal of the One Ring itself (its very permanence in the very Castle).

I know, it's a very puzzling question, but also very intriguing as Rivendell must necessarily preserve its sacred nature as probably the purest one among the good factions, along with Lothlórien.
Therefore, I believe we should go even beyond all our previous and current preconceptions about the One Ring and loosen a bit the common boundaries we usually refer to  ;)

Saeros

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #73 am: 23. Feb 2016, 12:34 »
I see your point, which is obvious, but consider the fact that my whole idea is based in a circumstance, in which the ring is not used by anyone (I should have mentioned it in my previous post)

Expose the Ring's Secrets as I imagined it, it translates in Elrond, Gandalf, Glorfindel or anyone else with the knowledge of the evil things that the Ring has already caused to the free peoples of Middle Earth, to utter stories that inform the rest of the attendees what will happen if the ring is used (offensive boost, but defensive drawback, for the sake of gameplay)

Keep the Ring's Secrets is the same as above, but instead of the recounting of the evil that the ring has caused, stories are told of great deeds of the past and a plan is drawn for the ring to be destroyed.

What I mean with my suggestion is to introduce the actual Council of Elrond, in the game since the ring is an option for the player to capture so he should be allowed to use it as all the rest of the factions in the mod.

I understand your opposition, but I think that it whould be unfair to nulify the opportunity for Imladris to use (in game) the ring. As you can understand the lore cannot be followed strictly in a game, something that already is there in Edain Mod (Drar, Murin, Gandalf with the ring etc)

Now I have a confession for you, before you argue with me (don't get me wrong I like a good discussion as much as the next man) :
I gave a lot of thought in my suggestion and I would like to push as much as I can to see even a small part of it to make it in the game, as I think that it meets all the requirements placed by the community  :D

Adrigabbro

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Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
« Antwort #74 am: 23. Feb 2016, 12:47 »
IIRC, a beta tester once said that they had found some interesting mechanisms. No offense, but I believe it would be better to wait for Rivendell  to come out before suggesting anything (same thing for Angmar by the way).


"That still only counts as one!"