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Autor Thema: Gandalf (Arnor)  (Gelesen 45495 mal)

Walküre

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #90 am: 31. Dez 2017, 23:45 »
I think it would be more unique having a sword-less Gandalf, to further differentiate him from his Gondor counterpart (and of course, taking into account that he only found Glamdring in The Hobbit's time). So maybe another animation could be found for him, I was thinking Saruman's, but I don't know if that would fit.

I lean towards this solution too. It would be quite a surprising and unique thing to explore Gandalf in such a manner, without the staff and with different abilities. And I believe that Saruman's own animation could do just fine, although we should probably figure out how that might work with him on his horse.

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #91 am: 2. Jan 2018, 00:59 »
Hey Guys, sorry for my late answer  :) First of all, remaining theme with the thread, i wish the best for 2018 in very Gandalf style, happy new year!  xD


Firstly: thank you Walküre for sharing your ideas, your advices are always precious. I like the idea of "Emissary of Hope" especially the lore meaning behind it. I admit that i'm not particularly fond on mount when it comes to heroes, because unless the heroes is just on the horse before arriving to the battle, usually it is difficult to use it as an escape tool, given that the switching unmount/mount is quite slow. I understand the reason of removing "Servant of secret Fire", since it plays a similar role of your marvellous Narya concept. That's why i wrote it on brackets the to discuss the matter ;). I hope that your concept will find a way, because it should compensate some weaknesses of our beloved wizard, given also that is a 3000 resources hero.
Only i want to ask you: why not keeping "Blinding Light" as ability on foot an "Emissary of Hope" as ability on mount? I think the last ability is more related to fire rather than light. I feel that Gandalf must always be the one who keep the darkest monsters away, and a light-based spell is the most suitable option in my opinion ;).
In this way we would have an "explorer" gandalf on horse, and a fighting Gandalf on foot. It is quite in line with the lore in  my opinion. Tell me what do you think  ;)


Secondly i'm interested too in exploring a new version of Gandalf who bears staff only. The animation of Saruman is quite good, but i don't know if it fits with Gandalf. Some of Saruman's way of move, attack, walk, reminds me an "evil" wizard. It seems the creators wanted to transmit this when they studied the character. Maybe it is habit only, but that is also the reason why whenever i use Radagast (who has the Saruman's animation) i feel like the animation is a little bit out of character, like if it was too "aggressive" and so to say "imperative" to fit with the Brown one. These are my sensations at least :) I would like to propose instead, and we return again on Chronicles submod, the animation of CaH wizards class. It is more generic, without the "evil" direction described above. I will try to figure out a way to extract and present here the various moves of Gandalf, Saruman and CaH wizards, such we can easily compare them.
As for a possible attack animation on horse using staff, i sincerely don't know what we could use for the purpose 8-|
Yeah, another important thing i forgot: with the staff-only configuration, should the attack turn into area-of-effect type like the other istari? Or, should it remain single one?

EDIT: I figured out out to use w3d editor as well as editing final gifs for the forum (at least not too heavy ones in terms of MB), for example, this is one of Gandalf's oringinal  attack animation, they are three in total (by game experience,it seems are played randomly), this one involved staff only, the other two Glamdring or both staff+glamdring (that is the coolest one, but could look strange if you remove the sword):


« Letzte Änderung: 3. Jan 2018, 12:52 von AulëTheSmith »

Dain@

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #92 am: 4. Jan 2018, 11:26 »
Sorry for my English !
Wow! I did not think that the conversation about the development of Gandalf will continue, and so on! As it recalls to me that Walküre said that Narya is the only compromise that can be realized for Gandalf, and also that everyone is up to the ideas that were suggested (ideas start from a different kind of guide for the wizard, to different abilities .) were rejected not because they were good or bad (regardless of canonicity and knowledge), but simply because Gandalf is a iconic character! and therefore there can be no change. Nevertheless, I am sincerely glad that most of the players, including Walküre with Gnomi (it's especially pleasant that one of the team members agrees with this) and I will be glad to connect to the conversation. But maybe it's worth to divide the topic into threads: Gandalf for Arnor and Gandalf for Dwarves ???.
1) So Gandalf for Arnor: The lack of a swordsman's wizard - this is already understandable. I'm more inclined to offe rAulëTheSmith. They very well reflect its essence + idea  Offer  Walküre .. Such symbiosis can form the ultimate idea for the abilities of Gandalf. But I only have one remark: Need to think about Gandalf when he gets the ring ???
2) "But I am realizing beforehand that people will argue it's too powerful a spell for a summoned 7 point hero. So I had a better idea, I suggest that, when summoned, Dwarf-faction Gandalf appears in the center of a smaller range Word of Power spell effect. "And then you hear the lines" Take up arms. Fight! FIGHT! ""
NetoD20! I totally agree. But then we need to think about what to do with his fireworks? Because this ability is so very powerful, plus it seems to me that he should change his role a little. Dwarves themselves are very strong and armored and do not particularly need a hero who, with his two abilities, can destroy half the enemy's troops (of course, if used correctly), on the contrary they need what can support the army and heroes. More long ago I proposed the following idea:
Light of istari - it dazzles the time of all nearby enemies in a small radius. Principle of action: Gandalf dazzles nearby enemies (including heroes) for 5 seconds, and they remain paralyzed, while Gandalf and allied heroes receive + 20% speed for 5 seconds. (Remember the scene of the year Gandalf escapes with Train from Azog in Dol Guldur !!!). Ida's ability is ideal for hiding out of the battlefield at critical moments!
This ability combines both leadership and a good non-destructive deed, giving an excellent tactical ability which you will clearly be helped by a fiercely opposed enemy (Well, let's say from the pale orc of your grieving head)
What do you think ?

n the sideline case, it all depends on what role and function Gandalf should perform ??? The mass murderer, (as now), a mighty saboteur or wise mentor ??? In any case, all those who have the abilities + those that were offered are very good !!! The final result depends on what combination of these abilities you choose and what do you expect from them in the end?

Walküre

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #93 am: 5. Jan 2018, 00:08 »
Most of the past proposals regarding Gandalf were rejected due to them proposing changes for Gondor's Gandalf, purporting to find radical alternatives for the iconic characterisation of the hero (like a completely overhauled power set). That's why those concepts weren't accepted. And the lore does retain its fundamental prominence in our reasonings, both when it comes to Narya and this precise proposal: the Grey Wizard is the sole and true bearer of the Ring of Fire by the time of the War of the Ring and Gandalf had not found Glamdring yet, during the War of the North. These are quite compelling reasons, lore-wise.

Walküre

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #94 am: 12. Jan 2018, 16:57 »
Shame on me! I just noticed that I forgot to reply to Aulë. May you pardon me and let me remedy this ;)

Well, I can't reasonably object the idea of two different abilities depending on when he's on foot or is mountain a horse. Provided that it's all feasible in the realm of in-game technicalities, I feel like seconding this suggestion. That would also give relevance to what is due: his wanderer motive and his undaunted determination in fighting anything serving evil forces.

Regarding animations, may you know that I quite believe that Saruman's moves could be suitable, don't you think? We are trying to find a solution, based on the assumption that the variety of alternatives is truly quite meagre. So, I think that the common move set of wizards (the one embodied by Saruman and shared by Radagast equally) could do well; just consider my previous reasoning about the early times of Gandalf. What if the three wizards had been more similar in their past than how they would do in the progression of time? Saruman had not turned to resentful or ambiguous thoughts yet, and all the Istari were endeavouring for the same goal. The animation would exactly show this aspect, at the beginning of their journey throughout the wonders and vices of the world. Gandalf should retain his iconic animation for Wizard's Blast anyway.

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #95 am: 14. Jan 2018, 18:37 »
Don't worry Walküre I know you didn't make it for purpose  :D given that you are a multitasking moderator I cannot blame you if you forgot something occasionally  ;)
Coming to the animation, I like some of the animations of Saruman but not all of them seems to fit with Gandalf, at least that's my personal taste. If you combine both the animation of CaH wizards and Saruman I can assure you that choices are not so limited . In fact if the skeletons of the two are similar we can think about creating a unique combination of animation, without creating nothing new  ;)
I got your reasoning behind what is in common among the three Istari. I will include some examples of both Cah and Saruman as well as updating the concept with new ideas this night ;)

Ectheldir

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #96 am: 15. Jan 2018, 18:14 »

I really think diversifying Arnors Gandalf from Gondors is a good and maybe even needed idea. And I very much like your proposal for him, Aule, and do not have anything to really ad to it.
Also, I think, that Gandalf should lose his sword and fight with his staff only, as that would show the difference in time even more and seems generally a lot more fitting to Gandalf at the time of the war with Angmar.

However, I had to read this:
Also, take in cosideration that implemeting this concept would mean to renounce to the ring form in Arnor, in favour of Arvedui as the central ring bearer.
Why?! Why would Gandalf have to remain without the ring in this proposal? I always really liked his black form. Not so much from a gameplay, but even more so from an aesthetic perspective. And I always thought tat form even more fitting for Arnors Gandalf (who does not become the white).
So why is it not possible, to retain his ringform? Can't we still keep that?

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #97 am: 15. Jan 2018, 21:59 »

I really think diversifying Arnors Gandalf from Gondors is a good and maybe even needed idea. And I very much like your proposal for him, Aule, and do not have anything to really ad to it.
Also, I think, that Gandalf should lose his sword and fight with his staff only, as that would show the difference in time even more and seems generally a lot more fitting to Gandalf at the time of the war with Angmar.

However, I had to read this:
Also, take in cosideration that implemeting this concept would mean to renounce to the ring form in Arnor, in favour of Arvedui as the central ring bearer.
Why?! Why would Gandalf have to remain without the ring in this proposal? I always really liked his black form. Not so much from a gameplay, but even more so from an aesthetic perspective. And I always thought tat form even more fitting for Arnors Gandalf (who does not become the white).
So why is it not possible, to retain his ringform? Can't we still keep that?

Thank you very much Ectheldir, for forwarding you opinion and replying  xD
The abilities of Dark Gandalf are inevitably bonded on The Gondor version . For sure lighting sword, since we are willing to remove Glamdring. It could be kinda strage to see such a change of skillset from normal to ring form. Also it would probably involved a change in the animation too, since the corrupted as his own walk animation, and it is  built around Glamdring too. I don't know, in my opinion is not so feasible nor it's fitting.

Anyway, look at at main post of the concept, i updated it  :)
Walküre, feel yourself free to change the image and/or description of Emissary of Hope if you want :)

Walküre

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #98 am: 16. Jan 2018, 00:04 »
I fancy the icon picture quite a lot. Good choice! It always conveys that adventurous trait of the wizard's character that I'm deeply fond of.

As for the initial part of the own description, I would word it this way: Gandalf journeys through the lands of grief, bearer of hope at the behest of the West. Then, the effects may be kept as they are.

P.S. You have actually inspired me to give life to a poem about the matter, Aulë. Thank you for the hint; I had better not waste time and write it down immediately :D

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #99 am: 16. Jan 2018, 00:51 »
I fancy the icon picture quite a lot. Good choice! It always conveys that adventurous trait of the wizard's character that I'm deeply fond of.

As for the initial part of the own description, I would word it this way: Gandalf journeys through the lands of grief, bearer of hope at the behest of the West. Then, the effects may be kept as they are.

P.S. You have actually inspired me to give life to a poem about the matter, Aulë. Thank you for the hint; I had better not waste time and write it down immediately :D

I will change the description Walküre, you are as always very poetic, I couldn't conceive such words by myself I admit it  :D I'm glad I inspired your inexhaustible creativity further  :) Then hurry up in writing your poem  xD
The picture is the beginning of all the adventures, so it is evocative I shall say :)

I will keep updating the very concept, adding more animations and improving it further where necessary :)
Oh , last but not least it's my duty to put a reference to Narya's concept, since also this version should be included in Narya's list. Furthermore, I thought to change something to make Narya's effect particular to this case, not about magic part but about melee attack, which by the way we should discuss more deeply, since we want the staff as only weapon :)
« Letzte Änderung: 16. Jan 2018, 01:00 von AulëTheSmith »

Walküre

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #100 am: 16. Jan 2018, 02:33 »
Yes, this proposal is to certainly open another discussion in the Narya-related thread and I'm looking forward to it. Take all the time you need. I will also update the starting post of the very thread. We need advertise the concept in much better ways.

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #101 am: 17. Jan 2018, 22:05 »
Yes, this proposal is to certainly open another discussion in the Narya-related thread and I'm looking forward to it. Take all the time you need. I will also update the starting post of the very thread. We need advertise the concept in much better ways.

I updated the main post :). Also i think about two things: usually Gandalf holds his staff with left hand. Both animations of Sarumans and cah are based on right hand. So i don't know if we can recover some old animation of Gandalf (Gandalf's blast is left-handed), it could finally result wierd.
Unless it's easy to mirror the movements, but i don't think so. It could require a lot of work. It's a pity  :(

Another thing, would this version of Gandalf has the same price of 3000 resources or should we consider to lower it to 2500?

Walküre

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #102 am: 18. Jan 2018, 02:38 »
Another option would consist of a simple overhaul of the sword. That is, Glamdring is to be superseded and the wizard will get a new blade, whose concept we may discuss here without any problem. This would spare us the need for another set of animations, which is the toughest aspect of the proposal. What do you think?

No, I still believe that Gandalf is well worth his 3000 resources ;)

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #103 am: 18. Jan 2018, 18:30 »
Another option would consist of a simple overhaul of the sword. That is, Glamdring is to be superseded and the wizard will get a new blade, whose concept we may discuss here without any problem. This would spare us the need for another set of animations, which is the toughest aspect of the proposal. What do you think?

No, I still believe that Gandalf is well worth his 3000 resources ;)

Despite it is a pity to renounce to "staff mode", I agree we should definely consider the way of alternative sword. Especially because it would require far less time and work. Also if we choose Saruman or whatever staff animation it would mean to renounce to some cool animation of Gandalf, because of technical reason we just said. Reversing the movement from left to right (because Gandalf holds Glamdring on right hand and staff on left, and all his animation are based on this positions), would mean a huge work I'm quite sure.
So yes, let's start the seeking of an alternative sword, any idea you have you can post it here, everyone is welcome :)

EDIT: Just as a start, what are we looking for? a standard (simpler) model to underline that Glamdring is more important? An example (don't take the engravings in consideration):



« Letzte Änderung: 19. Jan 2018, 19:35 von AulëTheSmith »

Walküre

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Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
« Antwort #104 am: 20. Jan 2018, 13:59 »
Aye, I would prefer a simple design, just like Glamdring (it's the best typology of Elven swords that I like and it just resembles the canonical shape of European swords, wielded high by knights or saints combating evil demons). And I would also have this past blade remain an Elven blade of the kind I mentioned above. Without the typical curves or other spike-shaped elements. Only, we should also try to differentiate it from Gandalf's regular sword too. So, I thought we should go for a different hilt; the very shape is to remain simple and just classic, with the only exception of the haft. Or, even better, the blade and the haft could be fused together into a single sword, as most of the weapons in Ancient Greece. Regarding the colour, I would suggest the typical steel-like tone or even pure white; I deem it wise to have the sword be made of silver. In line with tons of examples in literature, this metal has the peculiar power to suppress anything evil and harm it.


Then, my gentle attendees of the thread, I think I may have come up with a decent background story for the said sword, in order to endow it with a proper essence; this is the case for many items in Tolkien's writings. We must live up to the tradition. Concerning the story, what if the blade were too a gift from Círdan. Not only did he give the wizard the Ring of Fire, but also something that would be of much avail in his perilous journey. Círdan had foreseen all the tribulations that Gandalf would have to face and therefore decided to offer him a secondary object of relevant note. The Guardian of the Havens see further than anyone else in Middle-earth and knows that the hands of the wizard shall wield a greater blade, unearthed thanks to fate and hammer of the Evil...

Zitat
Take the blade of the Foam-riders with thee, Grey Wizard. It is silver, light as our vessels that voyage beyond the blue, yet dreadful token for whom dareth hinder the will of the Western Lords. Thou shalt bear it, along thy hazardous journeys and whither thy mission is to lead thee, until thy hand shall wield a mightier craft, made by grievous exiled and borne by a king dwelling in legend.
« Letzte Änderung: 20. Jan 2018, 14:03 von Walküre »