[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions
Heroes - how powerful should they be?
The_Necromancer0:
I play mordor I really like the heroes. I find them well balanced between the hero slayers, the unit supporters, the mass slayers. However Mordor doesn't have a good sout hero (or is that gorbag/shagart ?) I'm just sad that so many of the heroes have mostly single units or supporting powers. But I guess that's compensated with Sauron
Odysseus:
Gorbag/Shagrat is/are yes. The cheapest recruitable heroes are always the scout heroes. That said, the term scouting can always be taken out of context and done by heavier and quicker units. Generally speaking, Scout heroes are quite useful and I personally enjoy using them. Once they level, and they do so quite quickly, they have some great abilities.
Walküre:
--- Zitat von: Bogdan Hmel am 11. Okt 2015, 22:04 ---I want to restore the discussion in this thread. I hasten to say that I love this mod, and I write only because I want to help make it even better.
P.S.Next, I express only my opinion and I don't want to offend anyone.
P.P.S.English is not my native language, so I apologize in advance for any errors in the text.
I believe that the need to increase the strength of the more powerful heroes. I also believe that it is necessary to slightly increase the armor of most heroes.
I think that the heroes should have a greater gap in power.I propose to be divided into three categories of heroes.
Heroes of the third rank (cost from 1000 to 1800-2000) These are the main characters, though, and have useful skills, but not outstanding personalities of Middle-earth
The heroes of the second rank (cost from 1800-2000 to 2600) This outstanding heroes, one of the leaders of their factions.
They should have an advantage in the confrontation with the heroes of the third rank.
Finally, the heroes of the first rank (cost 3000) This is the most powerful heroes of the Third Age of Middle-earth. They need to be much stronger than the other heroes.
I want you to understand me correctly, I'm not asking to abandon the specialized heroes.But I do not want to get a situation where Eowyn alone kills Saruman without any problems.
(Saruman can defeat her only having ten levels).
I propose to significantly increase the power of the heroes of the first rank. Not to harm the balance, you need to increase the cost of these heroes.I know about the AI problems with heroes cost more 3000.
Therefore I propose to increase the cost of the heroes with building additional extensions, such as the tower sorcerer in Isengard.That is, to hire Saruman, you must first build a tower sorcerer.
Witch King for example, already has such a system, because you first need to build a fortress of Minas Ithil, and then another, and buy armor to the Witch-king.
In any case, heroes who cost 3000 did not have the strength to match this price.
Now I speak about some heroes.
Boromir: I do not like what you've done the same characteristics for the heroes one specialization.Example Boromir most indicative.
He is tank.Hama and Ugluk also tanks. They all have the same characteristics, health 5500, damage 260.This is despite the fact that Boromir is more expensive.
I understand that you can say that he has more useful skills.But the problem is even no in its cost.Boromir more significant figure in the world of Tolkien than Hama and Ugluk.
Boromir killed the Uruk-hai scout with three strikes. It's too little damage.There is also a problem with Boromir- When he fights, it is sometimes too long before striking again. It happens too often and annoying.
So I think it is necessary to increase his damage despite the fact that he was a tank.If you use my method classification of heroes, then Hama and Ugluk the heroes of the third rank, and Boromir - the hero of the second rank.
Aragorn:I really like the system that you have come up for him.I only see the problem with his last skill.When Aragorn becomes king, he should get more useful leadership or active buff.
Also, you can still change his ability to call the Dead,that they bring more benefits.
Gandalf:I understand your reluctance to add a large number of skills using the palantir.I myself do not support add many abilities for all the heroes. But I think that for Istari can make an exception.
Gandalf has is only active magical abilities, but as we know from the book, his main strength was the ability to ignite the hearts of those who are struggling with Sauron. Therefore, I propose to add to it three more abilities to make more useful Gandalf.
I have such ideas. You can add an active buff, or passive leadership associated with the ring Narya. You can use the idea of the film "The Hobbit" when Gandalf blinds Azog and other orcs.( in Dol-Guldur).You can also use a spherical shield Gandalf as the active ability
(While the current implementation is also excellent).In any case, Gandalf to be amplified.Or by enhancing current capabilities or through the addition of new capabilities through the Palantir(It seems to me the second option will make the game much more interesting with Gandalf)
Mouth of Sauron:I propose to remove the ability of a lightning strike.At first, is the copying ability to Gandalf(But we know that Edain team strives for uniqueness).Secondly, it's too powerful ability for a man, even if it is a black numenorean.And Ambassador of Sauron - a good example of wise use of Palantir.
Saruman: Saruman, as a Gandalf ,should be strengthened. He has to get the Palantir to increase the number of abilities(As it was in 3.8.1).Saruman - the personification of Isengard.He must be a really strong opponent for any enemy.
Some of the ideas for new skills:Teleport to the castle(From the book we know that Saruman could very quickly move, if necessary(So you can save Saruman in the battle, but cooldown to be very large);It's not the best idea, but maybe you will like it). disarm the enemy(This idea is taken from the film, when Saruman disarmed Gandalf.)There is a problem, that Grima has a similar ability .
Saruman must have leadership(His soldiers obey him unquestioningly, and very strange that Saruman has no leadership). You can also add the ability like have Theoden (corrupt) - conclusion of peace(From the book we know the power of voice Saruman, and the fact that after the destruction of Isengard he tried to make peace with Rohan).
Also, I have an idea what to replace the ability of Saruman (placed on the tower) which gave experience for the buildings(Because in the current system, this ability is useless).
Saruman may reinforce Allied troops at a great distance, and on the contrary to weaken the enemy.(As it was with a group of orcs who had captured Merry and Pippin, Saruman increased their strength, and, on the contrary, weakened three hunters who pursued the Orcs.).
Galadriel:I understand we are not able to play with her.But I watched the video of the beta version 4.2.I noticed that on the eighth level Galadriel has damage 264 (or 246).I understand that she deals damage over a wide area.But then it turns out that it is helpless against a single strong enemy units and heroes.
I understand that she is not a hero killer, but she must have a way to fight against such powerful units.You can add the ability to switch attacks(Following the example of Sauron (dark and fire)) 1) over a wide area; 2) against single targets.
I also support the idea to restore the ability "gifts Lorien" back to the book of spells.It takes valuable slot, but is used only a few times.Remove from spell books can be the ability to "shelling", because it is useless and uninteresting.I know that you like the current system, but my suggestion seems more logical, and free another slot.
Sorry for such a long post, but I could not hide it under spoiler ((
--- Ende Zitat ---
Thank you for your exhaustive feedback and explanations :)
I will just 'briefly' reply about a couple of things concerning the specific heroes mentioned in your post (always opinions of mine).
1. Boromir is indeed a Tank, and arguably has, as you rightly wrote, very useful abilities; not to mention that he is also a Ring Hero.
2. The Oathbreakers that Aragorn temporarily summons are exactly meant to trap an enemy hero inside this deadly circle, and ease, thus, Aragorn's duty as a Hero Killer.
If you meant that you want the previous/vanilla Oathbreakers summoning to be implemented again, you should consider that it wouldn't be suitable and very fair for him, as he is definitely not a Mass Slayer in the Edain Mod 4.0.
3. As I and others already stated before in other posts of other topics, Gandalf's abilities are an iconic Memory and testament of the past BFME games, where he was arguably the most recognisable and unique hero; it's very unlikely, thus, that they will be changed.
Also, the Keeper of Narya, in the Eadin Mod 4.0, is Círdan :)
4. The Mouth of Sauron, as you wrote, is not a common Human.
He might easily be a powerful and dreadful Sorcerer, who, as any Servant of Sauron during the War of the Ring, sees his powers generally enhanced by the growing and stronger Influence of the Dark Lord.
Furthermore, I read that the Mouth of Sauron was probably endowed by his Master with one of the lost Seven Rings of the Dwarves (but, it might be just pure speculation).
5. This is what I had previously written in a Saruman-centred topic here on MU; I explained why, in my opinion, the Nature of the Magic of Saruman is necessarily different from Gandalf's, and why he thus can't be as 'direct' and 'dynamic' as the Grey Wizard.
Saruman (again you already wrote it) is the personification of Isengard, and has permeated it with his powers.
Gandalf has no stable dwelling or shelter, and his 'dynamic' Nature often leads him to confront different and more 'direct' challenges :)
--- Zitat ---I don't really like the idea of a magical shield for Saruman as well.
A shield like that is really suitable for Gandalf, as he is constantly journeying across Middle Earth as a Lonely Wanderer, always confronting dark and foul creatures, and thus needing to directly defend himself.
Saruman, instead, although he theoretically could have created a magical shield, has stably established in Isengard for many, many years, and his Magic is much more 'extensive' and comprehensive than Gandalf's; Saruman used his powers to corrupt Isengard, create an industry, and artificially bring to life a new race of Orcs.
Saruman relies primarily on his Army and Servants for his own defence, especially after he put all his powers in the marring of his Land, gradually and constantly losing them.
It's a quite different kind of Magic, less 'direct' than Gandalf's, but much more inclusive :)
--- Ende Zitat ---
6. Galadriel is not a Tank nor a Mass Slayer or Hero Killer.
And, her powers are rightly and smartly focused on her new and more suitable role as a Hero Supporter and Building Destroyer (something that was not so clear in the Edain Mod 3.8.1).
If she really needs any new tool to defend herself better from direct attacks, I think that other solutions can be found, that don't radically change her role, powers or concept itself.
I thought about something, but, this is not the appropriate place to reveal my secret plans for her... :P
Also, I have to say that I'm really glad that Galadriel will now personally hand her Gifts to the heroes (as she truly does in the lore), since it clearly marks her importance in her faction and superior status among the other heroes, and rightly defines her role as a Hero Supporter (not to mention that this is probably one of the most lore accurate powers in the whole game) 8-)
Gandalf The Gray:
i know gandalf the gray faces more direct challenges but still saruman wins over him
and also i know i said it for too maaaany times and im probably annoying by now sorry for this but i think gandalf the gray and gandalf the white should not have the same powers like the light of istari. the word of power can have other visual effects and he can say "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" i think that will be awesome
Walküre:
--- Zitat von: Gandalf The Gray am 13. Okt 2015, 10:28 ---i know gandalf the gray faces more direct challenges but still saruman wins over him
and also i know i said it for too maaaany times and im probably annoying by now sorry for this but i think gandalf the gray and gandalf the white should not have the same powers like the light of istari. the word of power can have other visual effects and he can say "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" i think that will be awesome
--- Ende Zitat ---
No, you are not annoying at all, but, I definitely answered you exhaustively many times, and, most importantly, there has already been before other clear statements of other users or of the Edain Team itself :)
http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31723.msg410151.html#msg410151
http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31723.msg410504.html#msg410504
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