[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

Heroes - how powerful should they be?

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Lord of Mordor:
If a hero has both melee and ranged modes, both have to be useful. If the ranged mode is better in all situations, we might as well kick the switch entirely, and I don't think people would want that. More armor in melee isn't really an advantage - it just helps counteract the fact that you're in way more danger in melee. But why choose that in the first place if you can just stay back, deal the same or even more damage with the bow and not get attacked in the first place? What's your incentive to go into melee?


--- Zitat ---In general: In my view, all heroes are too weak in late game. Even if you have them in the middle of your army, their weak health and armor values mean that they end up dead much faster than your main army of troops. I think a balance should be found, between their health values originally and in the recent update that heavily nerfed them.
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That heavy nerf was 500 health for every hero, so between less than 10% and 15% depending on the hero. We could easily increase it by 250 or so again, I'm just surprised this makes such a massive difference.

It might also be that heroes are too vulnerable against certain types of damage? Would you say they die too fast against any kind of enemy (including swordsmen, cavalry etc.) or is it mainly focus fire by archers and attacks by other heroes? We need to be careful when buffing heroes and determine whether they really need to stronger against everything or against certain enemies only.

I've noted your points about individual heroes and will look into them, thanks for sharing :) I agree, for example, that Eomer is a bit lackluster at the moment.


--- Zitat ---Théoden is my favorite hero in the mod, Glorious Charge is the best ability ever. I do have a problem though, any ability that freezes units essentially negates this ability. So for Mordor, you can summon Shelob and freeze half the army of Rohirrim mid-charge, neutralizing most of the potency. I would like to see cavalry made immune to the effects of paralyzation while under the effect of Glorious Charge.
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I have to say I think it's actually pretty cool when abilities have some counterplay instead of being just "press this button to win the battle". Why shouldn't you be able to stop a cavalry charge with a stun? In general, it's not possible to make units immune against stuns in any case, you can only make them immune against fear effects.

Skeeverboy:

--- Zitat ---We could easily increase it by 250 or so again
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I don't think that heroes need a buff, the game is very hero-heavy at the moment. In Lategame the player with the higher level hero wins, because they can kill heroes with lower level and can kill armys with their skills.
Next patch will all units 20-30% fewer live, I hope this will be so for heroes too.

Gandalf The Gray:
you cant spam heroes like units man and they die fast so whats the point in having a hero just spam units

Elite KryPtik:

--- Zitat --- That heavy nerf was 500 health for every hero, so between less than 10% and 15% depending on the hero. We could easily increase it by 250 or so again, I'm just surprised this makes such a massive difference.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Well, in late game when both players have big armies with upgrades, not in lopsided matches where 1 player is stronger, but where both players are more or less equal, heroes always just seem to die first.  I'm not sure what kind of damage it is, I think its just the general lack of health and armor means that they die faster then a battalion of upgraded elite units. This is especially true with Isengard and Gondor. By the way Skeever, obviously if your winning a very 1 sided game and your heroes are higher level, they are going to win the match for you. All my points here are if the players are more or less evenly matched. 1 thing is also certain, heroes are EXTREMELY vulnerable against fire arrows, they can shred through heroes in seconds. 3-4 Ranger battalions with fire arrows can kill most heroes, sometimes even if they are level 10.


--- Zitat --- I've noted your points about individual heroes and will look into them, thanks for sharing :) I agree, for example, that Eomer is a bit lackluster at the moment.
--- Ende Zitat ---
That's good to know, I've been wanting a buff for Eomer for some time, even made a thread about it, which got overrun by people wanting to make Erkenbrand a full hero  [uglybunti]


--- Zitat --- I have to say I think it's actually pretty cool when abilities have some counterplay instead of being just "press this button to win the battle". Why shouldn't you be able to stop a cavalry charge with a stun? In general, it's not possible to make units immune against stuns in any case, you can only make them immune against fear effects.
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Well, all Rohan really has against Mordor in the late game is Glorious Charge. So Shelob being able to freeze your entire army mid-charge, is, essentially, "press this button to win the battle". Late game Mordor's infantry is superior in every way to Rohan's peasants, and most players will have gotten the fire arrows on all of their sentry towers, making bases immune to Ent summon(which is the 2nd weakest 10 PP power in the game in my opinion, behind Gondor's Rohan Answers!). Shelobs web really does need a fix, being able to freeze the entire enemy army like that on top of Shelobs abilities is too much for a 3 point power. Its not so bad with Lothlorien because that's all their 3 point power does, and its a fairly short duration. Shelob's web lasts for a lot longer unless I'm crazy, and obviously you are still summoning Shelob, who can deal some good damage on her own. Its unfortunate that there's no way to make units immune to the effects of paralyzation.

Skeeverboy:

--- Zitat --- All my points here are if the players are more or less evenly matched
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I talking from this to.
Aragorn on Level 10 can kill 4 heroes, Aragorn on Level 1 just 2.
Gandalf on Level 1 can kill some Units, Gandalf on Level 10 can kill or damage a army very much.

--- Zitat ---heroes always just seem to die first
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Than don't run with your heroes in the big army, than they overlive and be very strong.

--- Zitat ---Shelobs web really does need a fix, being able to freeze the entire enemy army like that on top of Shelobs abilities is too much for a 3 point power.
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When Shelob's web were weaker nobody will use this spell. Don't clumb your army, when you don't want that Shelob freeze them.

--- Zitat ---you cant spam heroes like units man and they die fast so whats the point in having a hero just spam units
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Have I say something about herospamm? :o
My heroes overlive often the full game.

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