[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

Heroes - how powerful should they be?

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Odysseus:
I mostly agree with what Skeeverboy says. I think similarly to Dawn of War II, your hero should support your army, not your army supporting your hero. It's the Battle for Middle Earth, a strategy game, concentrating more on troops and large scale battles than heroes, which the LOTR games do instead. I think heroes as of right now are in a good spot and most have a specific role and some interesting or lore-accurate abilities. That said, it is not perfect, some heroes indeed are a bit lackluster, or if not the case, feel a bit lackluster, Eomer being one of them, atleast, compared to the other mass slayers. Some on the other hand feel a bit strong, but they are not uncounterable so at least that solves that problem for me.

Nonetheless, heroes in general, can still take a beating in my opinion, and 15% is noticable, but not very significant as Lord of Mordor said. A significant buff often starts from around 25% and up, speaking from my past and current modding experiences.

What I do think does add to the frailty of some heroes is the back stab and retreat mechanics. Saruman, for example, is often seen as too fragile, not only because of his role in the movies and the lore that create a too powerful for balance image of him, but also because I find him rather slow. He can take quite a few hits from most units, but if he needs to get out of there, it is not really hard to chase him down and kill him. This is what I think is often overlooked. Often, when I see Saruman, I try to bait out his abilities, inflict damage on him, then chase him with approximately two cavalry or fast units and finish the job. It seems that this is part of some of the LOTR mechanics, but if units or heroes get attacked from the back, they seem to slow down and get ''stuck'' on their pursuers in a sense and it seems more damage is inflicted on them and more fragile heroes die  much faster when this happens. I think this also influences the image of heroes being more fragile.

Just blend your heroes with your armies as much as possible and keep on the micro, to make it hard for fragile heroes to get singled out is really all I can say. The ranged and melee attack argument should really be self-explanatory.

Most of you know this better than I do, but it's not so much about heroes anymore in Edain mod. Heroes are not one-man armies any longer. I am not saying it is better or worse this way, I have my own reserved opinion on that, but it is just different and it requires adjustment from the players.

Saying this, that or everything is useless or OP is just disheartening language, I think. It shows to me that you, as a player (talking in general), are viewing the gameplay experience negatively and only looking at the game for faults, not recognising the fault(s) can also be coming from your side. Improve thyself, then, when you are confident that you are on a level beyond any player at the game or mod, can you in my point of view, say this or that is OP, UP or useless.

Anyway, back on topic. I feel it is much better this way, instead of vanilla Lurtz and Gandalf slaughtering armies and heroes alike. Heroes are fun to use, and you are actually able to get them alongside your army since they don't cost a battalion worth of CP anymore.

I am far from an amazing player on BFME so, by all means, take my arguments with a grain of salt, but I feel that when I lose or make a frustrating mistake, I blame myself and strive to improve myself first, before blaming the game.

Just my two cents.

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades:

--- Zitat von: Skeeverboy am 14. Okt 2015, 17:28 ---
--- Zitat ---We could easily increase it by 250 or so again
--- Ende Zitat ---
I don't think that heroes need a buff, the game is very hero-heavy at the moment. In Lategame the player with the higher level hero wins, because they can kill heroes with lower level and can kill armys with their skills.
Next patch will all units 20-30% fewer live, I hope this will be so for heroes too.

--- Ende Zitat ---
This.
Upgraded archers are the best weapon against heroes by design: unlike melee infantry all of them can attack at the same time, and focus firing has always been the way to go against a single entity. Rangers are the peak of this, if you want - on top of their already superior damage they get an ability that does great single target damage. They are supposed to be good at killing heroes, trolls and the like.



--- Zitat von: Skeeverboy am 14. Okt 2015, 18:18 ---
--- Zitat ---Shelobs web really does need a fix, being able to freeze the entire enemy army like that on top of Shelobs abilities is too much for a 3 point power.
--- Ende Zitat ---
When Shelob's web were weaker nobody will use this spell. Don't clumb your army, when you don't want that Shelob freeze them.

--- Ende Zitat ---
I agree with KryptiK on this one, the web needs to have a smaller aoe. Otherwise, if the aoe is to stay the same, the duration needs to be reduced. I do favor the first solution though.



--- Zitat von: Odysseus am 14. Okt 2015, 18:19 ---What I do think does add to the frailty of some heroes is the back stab and retreat mechanics. Saruman, for example, is often seen as too fragile, not only because of his role in the movies and the lore that create a too powerful for balance image of him, but also because I find him rather slow.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Saruman is as fast as every standard infantry unit. Apart from that, it's kind of your (not you personally, Odysseus) own fault when a hero gets isolated. Start retreating them a little bit earlier to keep them protected by the rest of your army and you should be good. Pretty much what you said later on: Micro is important.


--- Zitat von: Odysseus am 14. Okt 2015, 18:19 ---[...]I feel that when I lose or make a frustrating mistake, I blame myself and strive to improve myself first, before blaming the game.

--- Ende Zitat ---
Well said. :)

Gandalf The Gray:
Erkenbrand  should a full hero

Skeeverboy:

--- Zitat ---I agree with KryptiK on this one, the web needs to have a smaller aoe. Otherwise, if the aoe is to stay the same, the duration needs to be reduced. I do favor the first solution though.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Than Mordor needs a other Hero Killer, because Shelob is the once Counter that Mordor has against Heroes how Aragorn and Gandalf.

--- Zitat von: Gandalf The Gray am 14. Okt 2015, 18:33 ---Erkenbrand  should a full hero

--- Ende Zitat ---
Than post your ideas in the Rohan Threat.

Gandalf The Gray:
gandalf is a mass slayer but he dies very fast this is not my fault he just dies very fast and im mixing him with my arimes and he dose not do enough dmg to stronger units

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