[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

Heroes - how powerful should they be?

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Skeeverboy:
When the Word of Power can kill a 15000 Ressources Isengard army it is op. At the moment it kill all not upped Units and do heavy damage against upped units in big area.
But Isengard has in the Late Late Game (when you let it come to this) Units which are level 5 and have more as 1000 Livepoints and Armour, so that they will overlive.

Odysseus:
I know asymmetric balance is quite interesting and it makes the factions more unique, but I still think every faction should be able to win in whatever stage of the game, just that chances of doing so are different depending on the stages.

I mean to say that if Rohan's biggest chance of winning is in early-game, which is fine by me, it should however not mean that for some specific reason you would not be able to win in late-game because of Isengard and Mordor's in late-game superiority, nay, supremacy and dominance even.

I say not that it is impossible, but it is kind of the idea behind that I find rather strange and you seem to be okay with that. The only thing with Isengard that I am not too fond of is the Uruk-captain upgrade. Yes it is expensive, but instant level 5? Are you sure that's reasonable?

Overall, I also favour 1v1, since it has better pacing and more opportunities for build orders and micro, but 2v2 is also a decent way of playing. I say the well-balanced games have an excellent 1v1 and a good 2v2 experience. Above, it becomes a myriad of exponents and well, it becomes impossible to control.

That said, Word of Power is one of the few natural abilities that Gondor has that, when surrounded by a huge force in late-game, you can force your way out. Naturally, it should not instantly kill an upgraded army, but it should at least force your enemy to retreat and let him/her tend to the wounded, so to speak. It did not do that at all in the video, in fact, his scattered troops just attacked Gandalf anew, instead of retreating and regrouping. I think this should be corrected at the very least.

In my opinion, there are simple and hard ways to approach this issue with Word of Power, but the 3 most probable alternatives would be:
1. Increase power, but also increase cooldown.
2. Decrease power, but also decrease cooldown.
3. Decrease overall health of units, which is thus going to be tested.

I know Isil is not the best, but I gotta deal with what I got when it comes to watching material. I'd love to see you play (Skeeverboy) more, more replays or even youtube videos yourself, so I can see you rectify a similar situation.

That would be great, sir Skeeverboy, since I would learn that way :).

Gandalf The Gray:
thats a good ide i think word of power should be powerful because its hard to get and have a longest CD for it to be balanced awesome idea

Whale Sharku:
I agree with everything Odysseus wrote.
(How could you honestly not agree with someone of that name? xD)

The overall unit health may be lowered a little in the near future, and it may be extremely important. You see, asymmetric balance depends in a very basic way on the question in how many "layers" a game challenges the player:

In a one-dimensional game where ressources are the only thing that matters, Isengart will always be assured to win (assuming both players are similar in their skill) which was not entirely true in 3.8 for some very aggressive rushes could technically stop it, but there were little to no other possibilities to do anything against it so that's pretty one-dimensional after all. Even if you smoothen out the asymmetric balance until Isengart is just a little richer than all the others, it would still have dominated.

On the other hand, in a game that not only asks you to earn more money than your opponent but also do the right (and delicate!) things with it, chances to beat the enemy regardless of asymmetric balance will rise automatically and drastically. Why? Because now, being poor doesn't automatically imply that you can't win anymore, because there is more to it - it could be that you make better use out of your spellbook, for example.

And this second case will occur once all units have their life reduced again, because then all the other layers to the game (like the already mentioned spells) will be stronger in comparison to them and have a bigger impact.

So - while all this may sound much more complicated - it is also much more effective than all the balance tools in the world when it comes to making an asymmetrical match more interesting. ;)

Btw this channel is entirely in german but maybe you can still learn from it:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD0txRsU9vypWQKQyUjaUhQ

Odysseus:
Come now, gentlemen. You flatter me xD. (Ps. Glad you like my name)

I am Dutch, so I can understand German to some degree. However, it seems it is mostly 3.8.1, which is rather unfortunate, since I prefer 4.0 for its distinct playstyle compared to the more traditional BFME II playstyle. Nevertheless, I will give it a try, thank you kindly!

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