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Autor Thema: Elrond - Lord of Imladris  (Gelesen 16407 mal)

Offline ziqing

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #15 am: 14. Jul 2015, 01:45 »

In my proposal the concept is basically: once you have activated the power, all the units become temporarily invulnerable (just like in the previous Edain Mod 3.8.1), but, this time, if she is next to your Lothlórien settlement, all the settlement will temporarily shine and become invulnerable to every type of attack (especially the ones of the siege machines) and spell.


I see this part in previous reply. I would rather with her leveling up, all Mallorn trees in the wild will be surrounded by densed fog which permanently reduce the damage from siege weapon and melee units, and also provide healing and defense bonus for nearby elves. I would rather her influence to be global, permanent and subtle.

I will keep reserved opinions in this "invulnerable power", this kind of power should correspond to some epic defense battle scene in the book, Hama earn it because of his valar in Helms Deep, King Dain because the bloody battle in Erebor against Easterlings, and Throin earns it for gods-know-what-reason(Azanulbizar?). Although there are also defense battle for Lorien during the war, it is not as tragic as those battles.

Offline Gandalf The Gray

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #16 am: 15. Jul 2015, 16:22 »
i think it is better for elrond to start with his clothes and later at lvl 5 get the black armor then lvl 10 get the last alliance  and if you buff him with a forged armor he gets the golden armor with some new ult but not the tornado galadriel should have the tornado 

Offline helloa2134

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #17 am: 15. Jul 2015, 16:42 »
Why should he get three or four different outfits?  It doesn't really fit.  Just have Elrond have his brown-silver armor at level 5, and have his Last Alliance armor when he is summoned in the Last Alliance Spell.

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #18 am: 15. Jul 2015, 18:10 »
i think it is better for elrond to start with his clothes and later at lvl 5 get the black armor then lvl 10 get the last alliance  and if you buff him with a forged armor he gets the golden armor
Yes, that's my proposal, but on level 10 should be his Dol Guldur armour. I think that three outfits are quite sufficient and suitable for him. Either way it will be unique. You are talking about four variations and it's quite a lot. xD

with some new ult but not the tornado galadriel should have the tornado
Honestly, yes, Gladys has tornado (her dark/ring hero form) but Elrond has whirlwind, it isn't strong tornado, but either way, I feel that it isn't suitable and lore accurate (in comparison to Nenya or Narya which have brilliant implementations in the mod) and mainly - I think that his role is (or will be) very useful hero supporter, but destructive whirlwind doesn't correspond with his role.

and have his Last Alliance armor when he is summoned in the Last Alliance Spell.
And in which faction he is summoned in the Last Alliance Spell? So where will be chance to see him in this armour? :P
Elves with Elrond were removed from Arnor ultimate spell and there is completely different effect (Gondor summoning). Try to play for Arnor. :P
And in Imladris? Yes, there is Last Alliance Spell, but logically without Elrond because he is as a permanent and main hero there ... and clones had only in Matrix trilogy. xD

But I have an idea ...
Elrond's role as a helper to others is fulfilled with his "Refresh" ability, which allows an allied hero to instantly use their abilities again. I would argue that Refresh is Elrond's other iconic ability.
I completely agree with you, in vanilla game such spell was available on level 10 ... maybe this could be effect of the Elven ring, mass heal and recovering of abilities for heroes, because it's mighty ability and Elrond isn't powerful sorcerer, so in that case his healing skills are supported by the Elven ring. So on level seven will be space for some new and "normal" ability. :)
For level 7 (or for lower level - it isn't important) I suggest simply solution - "mount/dismount" - we know that he is able ride a horse quite a long time, since days of Arnor ...


and in the first Hobbit movie we can see him as a leader of Imladris cavalry:


... also it fits into the faction, Imladris will have melee cavalry and only Glorfindel and Arwen are able to ride.

So effects for three Elven rings of power will be following:
Narya - supports
Nenya - protects
Vilya - heals



It makes sense. :)
« Letzte Änderung: 15. Jul 2015, 21:15 von TiberiusOgden »

Offline DieWalküre

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #19 am: 15. Jul 2015, 21:26 »



Nenya - protects




It makes sense. :)

Nenya protects indeed   (**) 8-) xD


Zitat
I completely agree with you, in vanilla game such spell was available on level 10 ... maybe this could be effect of the Elven ring, mass heal and recovering of abilities for heroes, because it's mighty ability and Elrond isn't powerful sorcerer, so in that case his healing skills are supported by the Elven ring. So on level seven will be space for some new and "normal" ability. :)
For level 7 (or for lower level - it isn't important) I suggest simply solution - "mount/dismount" - we know that he is able ride a horse quite a long time, since days of Arnor ...

I agree, I think that only Galadriel, among all the other elven heroes, should be able to use Magic in the way of modifying the Weather to create storms or whirls.
We could say that Elrond's 'little tornado' power is a nice and useful memory of BFME2, but I have never found it really appropriate for the very nature and essence of Elrond himself.

He is more a Healer and a Guardian of a sacred place in the War of the Ring, but, unlike Galadriel, his place/realm was not under constant attack, and he doesn't have to use his powers to physically protect it from heavy assaults (what Galadriel does on the other hand) or to destroy and cleanse an evil and corrupted ruined fortress in a dark wood.
Furthermore, we mustn't forget that Vilya is the Ring of Air, but hasn't primarily the power of conjuring whirlwinds; the main power of Vilya (apart from its protection of Rivendell and its status as the source of all the Joy and Bliss of that place) is maintaining a 'minimum quantity' of Good and Order in the World, whatever happens outside Rivendell.

I like the idea of a mount for him, so kingly, as all the armours are for every hero  :)
Even though 'someone' is so kingly and royal that doesn't even need a mount (but in the books, in ROTK, she rides a beautiful White Horse when she's heading to the Grey Havens)  :P

#AHorseForElrond  :)

Edit:
Also, a mount defines better the 'commander of armies' nature of Elrond, rather than being a wind sorcerer.


Because, obviously, #OnlyGaladrielCan  8-)

« Letzte Änderung: 15. Jul 2015, 22:17 von TiberiusOgden »

TiberiusOgden

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Elrond's proposal
« Antwort #20 am: 15. Jul 2015, 22:34 »
So Elrond skillset will look something like this:
1) Loud waters fury
Water blast in targeting area
3) Elrond's advice
Small amount of experience to hero
5) Armour of high elves
Passive ability - bonus effect for friendly units
7) Mount/dismount
Lord of Imladris is able to ride a horse
10) Vilya's restoration
Power of the elven ring heals nearby allies and refreshes ability timer of friendly heroes

Abilities are the same like in the previous version and probably will be the same in the current version. Change is only for level 7 (horse) and former spell on level seven is moved to level 10.
Many arguments for that are above. :)


« Letzte Änderung: 15. Jul 2015, 22:47 von TiberiusOgden »

Offline DieWalküre

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #21 am: 15. Jul 2015, 22:54 »

10) Vilya's restoration
Power of the elven ring heals nearby allies and refreshes ability timer of friendly heroes
 


Yes, this is the right purpose, the focus (level 10 ability) will be on his Restoration/Healing ability and nature, as Tolkien describes Rivendell, already in 'The Hobbit', as a calm shelter and place of recovering  :)

Zitat
"His house was perfect whether you liked food, or sleep, or work, or story-telling, or singing, or just sitting and thinking best, nor a pleasant mixture of them all. Evil things did not come into that valley." (The Hobbit, Chapter 3)



LORE ACCURACY first  :)

Tienety

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #22 am: 16. Jul 2015, 00:15 »
So Elrond skillset will look something like this:
1) Loud waters fury
Water blast in targeting area
3) Elrond's advice
Small amount of experience to hero
5) Armour of high elves
Passive ability - bonus effect for friendly units
7) Mount/dismount
Lord of Imladris is able to ride a horse
10) Vilya's restoration
Power of the elven ring heals nearby allies and refreshes ability timer of friendly heroes

Abilities are the same like in the previous version and probably will be the same in the current version. Change is only for level 7 (horse) and former spell on level seven is moved to level 10.
Many arguments for that are above. :)
I like this idea. I think that vilya's ability with healing effect is more suitable for him. Also, It would be nice to have Elrond on horse like in hobbit movie.  (**)
« Letzte Änderung: 16. Jul 2015, 00:32 von Tienety »

Offline Gandalf The Gray

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #23 am: 16. Jul 2015, 00:46 »
Zitat
Yes, that's my proposal, but on level 10 should be his Dol Guldur armour. I think that three outfits are quite sufficient and suitable for him. Either way it will be unique. You are talking about four variations and it's quite a lot
you have a point its a lot

Offline ziqing

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #24 am: 16. Jul 2015, 00:49 »
It is mentioned in The Silmarillion that Celebrimbor had forged the Three in order to heal and to preserve, rather than to enhance the strengths of each individual bearer, unlike the seven and the nine.

I don't know, I think I basically disagree with your interpretion of the three rings, in the book the three ring is forged so that Noldor and other Elves from the west could remain living in the middle earth against the will of Valar, it is subtle and global influence. But it seems you would rather make them directly related to battle, which go directly against the lore. But I won't argue more on that anymore.

Back to the game, Elrond's healing power doesn't originate from Vilya, he himself is the greatest healer of middle earth. And deleting his final tornado power just for a "mounted/dismounted" toggle? I do not like it one bit. Who will be the massive killer of Imladris then? And I am pretty sure Elrond will fight along side Imladris heavy infantry 95% time on foot, that "mounted/dismounted" toggle is meaningless, just like the mounted ability of Aragorn. Almost all human and elves in Middle earth know how to ride a horse, that doesn't mean we need to give a mounted ability to everyone just to take a precious power slot unless it serves a tactical need.

Offline Gandalf The Gray

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #25 am: 16. Jul 2015, 01:06 »
i think his lvl 10 ability should be the water horses for a mass kill ya know like in the books he summons the river ok gandalf did the one horse head but still elrond did the trick so there ya go lvl 10  ability

Offline CragLord

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #26 am: 16. Jul 2015, 01:22 »
Have you guys consider idea of spell unlocking like with Aragorn, I know that idea with Aragorn skill's upgrade and unlocking follows his life story, but think it would be fitting for Elrond also. I propose this idea firstly because of that tripple armour upgrade. (Also would like to see that Dol-Guldur's armour). That upgrades could be selected chronologically. (Where we should have 4 models)
During leveling his ability "Armour of high elves" should be stronger and stronger. (Improvement of leadership). Also on lower level, before he got 10 and "Vilya's restoration" (Does this ability can be used on him for healing?) he should have some hero healing ability like Athelas in vanila game, after all he's greatest healer of Middle Earth. This ability on level 10 should be replaced with "Vilya's restoration". 
If four model system is too much, then same idea only with 3 models, and he start with some of mentioned armour's models. :)
Names of model upgrades and order of model upgrading is something I presume you will propose better then me. xD
Also if he becomes a ring hero for Imladris, and there is not space for new abilities in his palantir,(like maybe water ponies  8-) ) maybe is also good idea to implement new look of palantir like team did with Sauron's ring form.
« Letzte Änderung: 30. Sep 2015, 19:23 von CragLord »

Offline ziqing

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #27 am: 16. Jul 2015, 01:54 »

I disagree, as you said there is no evolution in Elrond's role, and his armor in last alliance is definitely way better than his armor in Hobbit, it was made from the Noldor craftmanship of second age and he wore it in the most brutal and epic battle against Sauron, it will either be the final armor of his or only appear in the last alliance. That dark armor in Hobbit I is just for hunting , it is barely made for actual battle. I think we don't really need to involve it in the design(but I know the team has already finished this model)

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #28 am: 16. Jul 2015, 09:56 »
It would be nice to have Elrond on horse like in hobbit movie.  (**)
It seems that originally it was your idea some time ago. :D
http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/images/elrond1

Offline DieWalküre

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Re: Elven rings of power and man with golden armour
« Antwort #29 am: 16. Jul 2015, 10:42 »
It is mentioned in The Silmarillion that Celebrimbor had forged the Three in order to heal and to preserve, rather than to enhance the strengths of each individual bearer, unlike the seven and the nine.


But all the Rings of Power have, intentionally or unintetionally, this effect on everyone who wields them, either they were corrupted by Sauron's powers or not; even though we know that Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf already have immense powers by themselves, and end up using their Rings also as 'tools' to channel all their full potential, as it is shown in FOTR (book), when Galadriel (tempted by the One Ring and by her desires of dominion) raises her hand and obscure all the Stars in the Sky with Nenya's brightness.
And remember that it's true that the Three were forged by Celebrimbor alone, but he still learnt the basic knowledge (let's call it 'secret formula') to create the Rings of Powers by Sauron himself, and thus the Three are unwillingly bound to the destiny of the One Ring like the other Rings, and share with them fundamental elements/characteristics, and enhancing the natural powers of their bearers is one of these common characteristics.

Zitat
I don't know, I think I basically disagree with your interpretion of the three rings, in the book the three ring is forged so that Noldor and other Elves from the west could remain living in the middle earth against the will of Valar, it is subtle and global influence. But it seems you would rather make them directly related to battle, which go directly against the lore.

You are totally right, that's why I think that a Healing/Restoring power is more suitable for Vilya, since Elrond never used in the lore its powers, apart from the flood (power that he already has), in the destructive purpose of creating whirlwinds.
I recognise that it is his iconic power and a nice remnant of BFME2, but it doesn't really fit Vilya's nature.