[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Imladris Suggestions
Elrond - Lord of Imladris
Tiberius Ogden:
--- Zitat von: Walküre am 24. Jan 2019, 21:05 ---I agree on the global effect, then. Only, I think we should highlight the fact that its duration should be moderately long :)
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Do you know what would be unique and fit to Vilya's protective long term effect? To make it passive.
--- Zitat ---Vilya: Vilya shields Rivendell from decay and evil. All buildings, units and heroes within the castle are immune to magic, fire, frost and poison. (Passive).
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It would clearly distinguish Vilya from two other rings and restricted effect only to hidden sanctuary. Permanent effect would also be loyal to books.
There is one problem - Elrond already has one passive skill, second would be boring.
Edit: I got it. What about make it active/passive? ;)
--- Zitat ---Vilya: Vilya shields Rivendell from decay and evil. Imladris buildings, units and heroes are immune to fire, frost and poison. While active, all faction forces and structures are resistant to magic for a long time.
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Now it seems quite worthy of ultimate ability of faction hero. In terms of power it's comparable with Nenya, maybe it's even stronger, after all we're talking about the mightiest of the three, according to Tolkien.
So ... you have the green light! Rework first page, show the whole skillset, highlight reworked ultimate ability and our arguments behind it, add some pictures ... just typical walls of text, nothing more. :P
Walküre:
Marvellous ideas! This thread is a real forge of fantastic concepts ;)
Look, I'm literally torn inside between two major options. I haven't wrapped my head around a final solution yet. I hope we'll be able to call it a satisfying end, very soon. Before listing the two, I have taken the liberty to rule out the active/passive hypothesis, as it seems to me that it somehow halves the potential of the ability and separates aspects that should instead exist together (on equal terms).
1. Your previous idea is actually very revolutionary, and incredibly unique. A passive influence, therefore perpetual, would fit Vilya the best. Only, unfortunately, you've also identified the main implications which such rendition would cause:
- He would have two passive abilities in his skill set.
- The Ring of Air would inevitably end up being boring.
- There wouldn't be many grandiose graphical effects we could find (I infer that people would not like to have their own castle/camp permanently illuminated).
- All in all, it would not be appealing, to say the least.
2. The second option, mind, is probably the boldest one. Much bolder than inherently unique. Nonetheless, I'm sure it would fare overwhelmingly well; what players would fancy and appreciate a good deal. Hence, let us retrieve from the void a dismissed concept:
--- Zitat ---Vilya's Blessing: Vilya shields Rivendell from decay and evil. All Elven buildings, heroes and units will be blessed with temporary invincibility.
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As you may see, nothing so intricate or complex. Just the past prowess of Nenya, albeit applied globally.
- This concept respects the definition of decay we had discussed together, granting full protection from enemy spells, hero abilities, attacks (all natures) and whatsoever hostile act. Ergo: immunity.
- The Ring would in this way be enormously satisfying to use. A worthy, decent, magnificent level-10 ability.
- As you may have noticed, only Elves are affected. Rangers, Hobbits, Elendil, Isildur (and so forth) are thereby excluded.
- Duration is the weak point of the situation. It necessarily has to remain short, for the sake of balance. 20 seconds, I suppose.
- Regardless of time, here is another utmost argument: Vilya would finally be the ruling Ring among the Three. The mightiest of the Three Rings, gifted with the strongest supportive feature in the whole game 8-)
By consequence, in light of Vilya and Wind Armour, Elrond's price should be reasonably raised to 3000 resources, which is the maximum value for a hero. If we consider that he's one of the wisest, most experienced characters in the lore, that would make for a stunning improvement. A landmark overhaul, to be sure.
Tiberius Ogden:
--- Zitat von: Walküre am 25. Jan 2019, 01:27 ---Vilya's Blessing: Vilya shields Rivendell from decay and evil. All Elven buildings, heroes and units will be blessed with temporary invincibility.
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Be wary, players would turn it to offensive-siege ability, although we want to make it clearly protective. That's why invulnerability effect was removed from Nenya:
--- Zitat ---not march through any and all damage with an invincible army. If anything, that sounds more like a Dwarven thing!
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So ... I've returned to main base idea (only hidden sanctuary as we wanted), but stressed long term effect aginst decay:
--- Zitat ---Vilya's Blessing: Vilya shields Rivendell from decay and evil. All buildings, heroes and units within the main base will be blessed with invincibility for a long period. Does not affect the walls and their defensive options as well as a gate.
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It would mean that walls and gate are normally vulnerable to siege machines, but when enemy breaks through ... they'll see that what is hidden behind the walls is protected from decay by powerful magic of the mightiest of the three. :)
It would make spell balanced and yet interesting to use.
Walküre:
I know, that's quite a tough aspect to work on. Given its global range, Nenya could too (theoretically) serve an offensive strategy, although healing does not equal to having an almighty army at your service and smashing through your enemy's defence. I just wanted to mirror the Ring of Water, while choosing more powerful effects. Anyway, the relative timer would be too short nonetheless.
Fine, let us go back to our two conceptual pillars: invincibility and duration :)
I agree with the sanctuary-like rendition. Only, I can't see the point of excluding walls and akin fortifications from the equation. I think it would spoil the concept a bit, and your opponent could not be able to vanquish your forces either way, as long as you stay in your base. If you reflect on it, walls equally play a crucial role in the defence of a settlement. It would be unwise of us, in case we did without them. Consider things conceptually: a supreme, benevolent, and extremely defence-focused Ring of Power that doesn't protect walls? I would personally leave it as it should be, without such constraints. I'll explain why it wouldn't break balance, in my opinion:
- As we concurred, Vilya will be strictly tied to your main base. In so doing, we have a kind of one-sided feature; a one-way ability. That is, you can't use it for offensive purposes or for besieging enemy castles/camps. No offence, apart from the perimeter of your base (which is self-defence, by the way).
- As long as you remain behind your ring of walls, you shall be safe and sound. Once left the base, the blessing will be gone.
- It follows that the player will have to judge carefully whether the comfort of Imladris is more advantageous than launching an assault. In case one opted for keeping units inside, the initiative would be on the other side of the pitch. Obviously, the ability cannot last forever, and it would already be immensely useful to know that your base will resist any kind of hostile manoeuvres (while being away and busy with attacking your enemy); this is the advantage of the feature, though.
- Put in these terms, Vilya would match its lore and own position in the Three Rings-related hierarchy.
--- Zitat ---Vilya's Blessing: Vilya shields Rivendell from decay and evil. All buildings, heroes and units within your base are blessed with invincibility for a long duration.
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I strongly believe this version fits the canons better.
--- Zitat ---Of the Three Rings that the Elves had preserved unsullied no open word was ever spoken among the Wise, and few even of the Eldar knew where they were bestowed. Yet after the fall of Sauron their power was ever at work, and where they abode there mirth also dwelt and all things were unstained by the griefs of time.
***
In that time the stronghold and refuge of Imladris, that Men called Rivendell, was founded by Elrond Half-elven; and long it endured.
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J.R.R. Tolkien - The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age
NOTE: I still think he should be made a 3000-resource hero. That's reasonable, balance-wise.
Tiberius Ogden:
--- Zitat von: Walküre am 25. Jan 2019, 14:22 ---I still think he should be made a 3000-resource hero. That's reasonable, balance-wise.
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All faction leaders (Gandalf, Saruman, Agmar's WK, Galadriel, and probably Smaug) cost 3 000. Elrond should definitely correspond with them.
Mighty Elf lord is even cheaper with current price 2 500 than Dain and Thorin who cost 2 600. 8-|
So one thing how to balance such powerful ability is to make him more expensive so we suggest +500 to total 3 000.
And second thing how to "weaken him" is already implemented - he has "horse skill", it means that he has only three active abilities and one passive.
Everybody knows that "horse for Elrond" campaign was my and Tienety's idea in the past ... and Elrond eventually truly got a horse. xD
But our arguments why we wanted him to mount horse were misunderstood. We said give him a horse in order to make rest of the abilities cool and strong. But it didn't happen - because heal was removed from his skillset and wind shield isn't wothy of ultimate ability of the faction hero.
--- Zitat ---Vilya's Blessing: Vilya shields Rivendell from decay and evil. All buildings, heroes and units within your base are blessed with invincibility for a long duration.
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So when we implement this, we'll also finish his rework which we started four years ago, but sadly stopped somewhere between level 7 and 10. :)
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