[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Imladris Suggestions

Elrond - Lord of Imladris

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AulëTheSmith:
You go too far, my friends. (half-quote)  [ugly] [ugly]
I'm actually sad that great Edainers like Oak and Julio lost their passion about this discussion. I would warmly invite them to come back and don't take the discussion too personally. Also i advice Tiberius to be a bit more patience about others proposal: sometime the flash of inspiration does not come immediatly,especially in a difficult situation like this one. it is useless to keep on doing the same question  :P :P
I have some ideas and i want to discuss them with you. As always i'm open to any correction and/or suggestion:

ELROND
Level 1: Rage of the Loudwater - Elrond raises the waters of the Bruinen in defence of his people, summoning a powerful flood in the form of a two mighty horse to crush enemies in the target area. At levels 3, 5, 7, and 10, an additional flood horse appears (maximum 5). Left click to activate.

I always feel like starting with only one horse is a bit less, in terms of damage and aoe with respect to other mass slayers. I propose to simply add one more horse at the start

Level 5: Restoration - Elrond uses his healing magic to refresh allied heroes, instantly removing poison effect as well as healing any cursed wound (i.e. deleting single target ability like Morgul Blade, bite of the Werewolf, etc). Furthermore, for some time the automatic healing speed of the target heroes is increased a bit. Left click icon then left click on target area.

I think that there's actually a big major difference between Elrond and Galadriel: while the first one is an actual expert in combining medicine and magic to cure terrible fears (he actually combines science and magic, think about Frodo's wound for example), the second one is able to restore the spirit of heroes regardless of the distance (and that's the real power of the White Lady in my opinion). Therefore, i don't want to compare them, they are simply skilled in different tasks. The ability i proposed could be a way to keep these two different healing style more unique/ separated

Level 10: Vilya, the Ring of Air - Vilya shields Rivendell from decay and evil:
- Vilya's blessing (passive): what is inside your fortress or camp does not suffer the ruin of time: buildings repair time is decreased, heroes ability cooldown is reduced by -25%, banner carriers replace units a bit faster (alternatively: units are slowly healed, but i feel it would be redundant with respect to Nenya effect. Or, units inside the fortress are immune to poison and fire (is it technically possible for units only?)).
- Vilya's wrath (active): Vilya unleashes the power of wind to protect Imladris' borders from any evil threat. For one minute a big ranging whirlwind is summoned all around your fortress/camp. Any enemy units that enter in contact with the magic whirl is damaged over time, while the armor of your walls and gate against siege weapons is increased. When the effect will fade out, also  the passive effect will be deactivated, until the power of Vilya is ready to be used again (same current system of Narya).


The major point that is struggling us in finding a proper solution: the effect of Vilya. I'm absolutely  in favour (and i will stay in this position) to a passive/active effect of Vilya. it was also cosidered by both Walkure and Tiberius some comments ago. It's the only way in my opinion to find a common point between our different visions.
As you can see above, i tried to underline, at the same time three different characteristic: the protection against time, evil, and also nature element of Vilya (air).
First, It is not totally true, in my opinion, that the so called "time effect" cannot be implemented in game; in details: if something is not actually ruined by time, it means that is able to keep its beauty and integrity over time, i.e is continuosly repaired, cured, (healed if we speak about beings). It is the real effect of Vilya in my opinion: is "as if" the time is passing slowly. But the time itself is not altered at all (it should sound like a weird example, but it is effective: it is like Wolverine "immortality" :D :D)
Reagarding whirlwind effect: one of my first ideas was to actually trasfer the current ability of Elrond to a bigger scale: the entire castle/camp. It is a more defensive approach i know; but is it not the actual point around which this long discussion is circling? Also, since in my proposal it still affects enemy units with some damage (not sure about knocking back effect will cause crashes in such a big scale  [ugly]), the mass slaying effect is preserved. An idea of how it could look like: 



What do you guys think? What will you change, modify or even throw away about my idea? :D

Walküre:
I'm glad you've joined our vast, wide-ranging conversation as well, Aulë :)

With your permission and well-inclined spirit, I fear I have to dismiss your concept, which I nonetheless find a lot imaginative, and move to another direction further. There have been some significant developments, lately. I was in a sort of 'exploration mood', and after a dense discussion (brain-storming) with Julio and Oak on Discord, I think we might be very close to a decent result, that would take all our thoughts and concerns into careful consideration.

(Note aside: it's true that I and Tiberius had pondered about the possibility of passive effects for Vilya, but we have ultimately scrapped every akin plan, since the inherent potential of such tool would have been halved; of even greater importance, we absolutely want to get rid of any thematic relation with air-natured logics/mechanics, in the same way as Nenya is not strictly tied to water. That's an imperative path we have set ourselves on.)

I hope you'll see the reason behind my final decision ;)


Hence, I would like to re-formulate (modify) the concept as follows:


--- Zitat ---ELROND
Level 1: Rage of the Loudwater - Elrond raises the waters of the Bruinen in defence of his people, summoning a powerful flood in the form of a mighty horse to crush enemies in the target area. At levels 3, 5, 7, and 10, an additional flood horse appears (maximum 5). Left click to activate.

Level 3: Ancient Equipment - Elrond draws his old sword Hadhafang and puts on his battle armour. Elrond permanently gains +25% armour and inflicts area-of-effect damage. Units in his vicinity also gain +25% armour.
Elrond mounts or dismounts his horse. (Passive and active ability)

Level 5: Restoration - Elrond uses his healing magic to refresh allied heroes, instantly recharging their ability timers. Does not affect Elrond. Left click icon then left click on target area.

Level 7: Wuthering Gale - Elrond summons a raging whirlwind around himself which will heavily damage surrounding enemy units, knocking them down and drawing them towards Elrond. Left click to activate.

Level 10: Vilya's Blessing - Vilya shields Middle-earth from decay and woe. All buildings, heroes and units within allied bases receive -100% damage (any type) for a long duration (45 seconds).
--- Ende Zitat ---

These are the main arguments at the kernel of this proposal:

1. For the jubilation of many, we shall retain restoration as it is now. That is, refreshing heroic abilities in a radius. So, we save the healing aspect of his characterisation, which some did not want to see gone and which I cannot incorporate into the Ring of Air (without messing things up).

2. Keeping his water-horses intact is functional for his underlying, apparent mass-slayer role. The same is true in respect to his level-3 leadership (now combined with the mount); we therefore spared a precious slot!

3. Let us talk about Vilya: as you may have noticed, it no longer grants invincibility. While I mourn the loss of so incredible a rendition, I made sure to explore our utmost preservation theme in another manner. In other words, I think that relieving buildings, troops and heroes from damage (all natures), grief and pain, is equally fitting for the scope. In force of this latest modification, additionally, the Ring shall also provide a magical shield to all your allies (their respective bases). This is meant to increase the own capacity of Vilya in terms of sheer power, when compared to Nenya, and reference another major piece of the canons:


--- Zitat ---In fact, I remember having read this from an accurate lore source, the Three Rings (thanks to their combined influence) also ensured that there was a minimum amount of order in a troubled Middle-earth, even though their beautifying aura did not leave visible traces in non-Elven territories. For want of better words, beside from preserving immortal places, they had maintained an adequate level of equilibrium in a world growing chill and disenchanted, so that magic could still prosper (in some defined areas) and the earth was not left to its wistful destiny.
--- Ende Zitat ---

In order to summarise it better:
- Vilya will be overall stronger than Nenya.
- The Ring is still centred on bases only.
- Our decay/preservation argument is dealt with differently, but still effectively.
- Vilya, unlike Angmar's fell blizzards and snow, is going to affect all allied bases, and also units and heroes.
- It works for all forces of the Good; otherwise, limiting its range would probably have seemed quite egotistical and not altruistic (not really typical of Elrond).
- It stays as an exclusively-supportive feature, now more flexible and game-determining.
- Values are justified for its status as a final ability. I consider the '100 milestone' as a psychological threshold we should not cross (downward).
- It still lasts more than the Ring of Water.

NOTE: Someone might rightly argue that such rendition is too much similar to Círdan's ultimate ability, which grants a global armour boost to buildings and siege machines. Then, in order to resolve any possible (unpleasant) repetition, I decided to modify his final skill a little bit. Don't forget that his first ability should already be changed (as suggested in my Narya proposal); furthermore, Círdan is also able to repair buildings. Thirdly, I have already suggested the team rename his last ability as 'Tutelage of Ossë'.
So, given the mentioned premises, his ultimate ability has a new effect, reflecting the tumultuous, turbulent temperament of the storm-Maia:


--- Zitat --- Level 10: Tutelage of Ossë - Thanks to the ancestral teachings of Ossë, Círdan grants all ships and siege weapons across the map +30% armour, +20% attack and +15% speed for a duration.
--- Ende Zitat ---

I feel it's the best compromise we could hope for. Feel free to give your feedback :)

Tiberius Ogden:
I've lost passion as well.

Actually not  xD
Currently there are three groups of person:
1) Bounded by Edain roles that respect Elrond's mass slayer role, that's why they want to remove current restoration, and additionaly want to make him and Vilya more important.
2) Others who want Elrond from 3.8.1 (basically hero supporter plus some mix abilities) which would mean completely change his role and eventually change roles in the whole faction.
3) And people who think that there can be some changes but restoration must stay and Vilya's invincibility is strong.

Problem is that we're discussing roles in Edain, in general, and not Elrond as a one hero. We didn't think with Walkure that debate will take this direction. :P

You know, for us, current restoration doesn't seem interesting because it's without healing effect, in only refreshes. And mainly - it's pure hero support ability.
We wanted to keep three mass slayer abilities and add one general ultimate ability that would highlight Elrond's importance. Nothing more. Just slight rework to finish his overall rework which we started somewhere in 2015. 

Walküre:

--- Zitat von: Tiberius Ogden am  2. Feb 2019, 19:23 ---We wanted to keep three mass slayer abilities and add one general ultimate ability that would highlight Elrond's importance. Nothing more. Just slight rework to finish his overall rework which we started somewhere in 2015.
--- Ende Zitat ---

You could not have recapitulated our situation better :D

True, we didn't expect such turn and twist. Nevertheless, I think our last iteration keeps the main points together, in order to satisfy the majority's needs. We just had to find a common ground and still remain loyal to the pillars sustaining the concept: focus on his mass-slayer nature, retaining Restoration and reworking Vilya lore-accurately.

To the people who fancy Elrond's past 3.8.1 design, I say this: I'm sorry, but I won't proceed in that direction. We won't take that path. I strongly believe that experience-lending features, sheer healing or mobile tornadoes would just turn the clock back, resembling outdated solutions which could not simply fare well in Edain 4.5.

Fellowship:
All the proposals that were suggested here are well-thought and fitting, yet I must say the last one you created with cooperation is the best of all. The skillset, that you ended up with, totally unlocks Elrond's true power, which I believe was the main goal of this thread. Really nice job!

I completely agree with combining his Ancient Equipment and his Mount, thus making it even more unique and leaving space for another ability. If you are to proceed with this idea, how about changing the icon of the Ancient Equipment with this image:


In this picture Elrond is wearing his armor while mounting his horse as well, thus showing the passive and the active effect of the newly combined ability. What do you think about this my friends?

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