Elrond - Lord of Imladris

[Tiberius Ogden]

ELROND

Level 1: Rage of the Loudwater - Elrond raises the waters of the Bruinen in defence of his people, summoning a powerful flood in the form of a mighty horse to crush enemies in the target area. At levels 3, 5, 7, and 10, an additional flood horse appears (maximum 5). Left click to activate.

Level 3: Mount - Elrond mounts or dismounts his horse.

Level 5: Ancient Equipment - Elrond draws his old sword Hadhafang and puts on his battle armour. Elrond permanently gains +25% armour and inflicts area-of-effect damage. Units in his vicinity also gain +25% armour. (Passive ability)

Level 7: Wuthering Gale - Elrond summons a raging whirlwind around himself which will heavily damage surrounding enemy units, knocking them down and drawing them towards Elrond. Left click to activate.

Level 10: Vilya's Preservation - All heroes and units in the vicinity of Elrond are continously healed, their abilities slowly restored and along with the structures protected from magic for a long period. Left click to activate.

As you can see I wanted to mirror Nenya and keep Elrond's restoration.

- Rank 10: Nenya's Cleansing. All allied units and buildings on the map are continously healed for a long duration. Units in the vicinity of heroes with Gifts of Lorien additionally become fearless and can't be knocked to the ground. Buildings in the vicinity of heroes with Gifts are immune to fire.

Additionally I added Magic immunity (it's mightiest of the three elven rings after all), cause I think that resistance only to Fire and Frost (I'm not sure about Poison) for Narya - ring of fire - would be balance wiser for pure stance system and also more logical.

GANDALF'S STANCES

Normal Stance: Narya - The Ring of Fire ensures a proper balance between spell effectiveness and the bubble-shield's frequency.
Narya also preserves its bearer from toil and wear, providing higher resistance against fire and frost.

Offensive Stance: Might of the Istar - Gandalf uses his potent magic to fight evil and tyranny. His spell damage is amplified by 50% and his attack by 15%.
On the other hand, his defence is decreased by 25% and his magical bubble-shield is completely disabled, leaving him vulnerable against enemy heroes and monsters.

Defensive Stance: Wizard's Shield - Gandalf conveys all his power to his bubble-shield, to resist any fell menace. His defence is increased by 25% and his bubble-shield's frequency will be a lot higher, granting him protection against units, monsters and heroes.
Conversely, the effort drains part of Gandalf's vigour and his spell damage is then decreased by 50%.

I've mentioned mightiest of the three ... but we know from Tolkien that ring is powerful as its ring bearer. And in terms of power, I am sure that Galadriel can beat Elrond's natural power, so make Nenya stronger than Vilya.

Elrond's price can stay unchanged (2 500).
He is still clear mass slayer, although with faction support aspect, and Vilya has protective purpose, not offensive and mainly isn't OP.

[Seleukos I.]

Hi,
I have to say I really like the Elrond rewroke presented above.
Just one questione: Is his last skill active or passive?

But in general I'm really in favor of this change!


 best regardes
Seleukos I.


ps. I hope I have understood your concept correctly ^^

[Tiberius Ogden]

I really like the Elrond rewroke presented above.
Just one questione: Is his last skill active or passive?

Yes, active, but really long duration. I thought about active-passive skill, but Elrond already has one pasive ability in level five, so another, even half passive, wouldn't be interesting.

I also think that Vilya's restoration affecting also units quite fits to Imladris gameplay, cause there are units with many skills.

[Seleukos I.]

Yes, that makes sense.
Thanks for the explanation
Does it also protect heroes from magic? I think that would be really well fitting and  quite strong as well. Just imagine your heroes would takte no damage from spells like Gandalfs "Istari light" or Mouth of Saurons "Evil Eye". That would be huge.


best regardes
Seleukos I.

[Tiberius Ogden]

Does it also protect heroes from magic? I think that would be really well fitting and  quite strong as well. Just imagine your heroes would takte no damage from spells like Gandalfs "Istari light" or Mouth of Saurons "Evil Eye". That would be huge.

Yes, but only near to Elrond, near to ring. Logic behind Vilya's power is something like that:
Elrond is well known healer, so he uses Vilya to cast restoration across battlefield, and additionally Vilya, as the ring, resonates and provides magic resistance around itself.

[Seleukos I.]

ok, nice!
I really like this concept. Elronds main role (unit support and mass slayer) stayes untouched, or gets even buffed, and you added some coll new aspects. I like it

[Walküre]

I really like the basic idea: merging (somehow) restoring features with Vilya. Still, I would like to modify the concept a bit. In my opinion, Elrond surely deserves to cost 3000 resources (as a revered Elven sire) and his Ring's effect should be expanded accordingly, so that we can really call it a true blessing. I think it would be great to break down Vilya's influence in three different parts, affecting heroes, units and buildings:

(Note: restoring units' abilities makes sense, but it contrasts with the new central spell, Sanctuary of Knowledge, which already reduces the cooldown of units' abilities.)

Level 10: Vilya's Blessing - Vilya grants your forces a powerful blessing. All allied buildings within the base get +50% armour and resistance to siege.
Reduces the cooldown of heroic abilities all over the map and that of spells.
Units in the vicinity of Elrond receive -25% damage and are immune to magic.
Lasts for a long duration.

What do you think? Its magic is now truly global and widespread. We're no longer constrained and limited excessively, and restoration, as a theme, is well incorporated.
Círdan's last ability will still change, following my suggestion.

[Tiberius Ogden]

(Note: restoring units' abilities makes sense, but it contrasts with the new central spell, Sanctuary of Knowledge, which already reduces the cooldown of units' abilities.)

Sanctuary of Knowledge: Units gather experience twice as fast and their ability cooldowns are reduced by 25%.

Not much - cause spell upgrade is passive and instant, while Vilya's is active and last long. Central spell also corresponds with last ability of the faction hero which quite fits.
By the way Wuthering gale also corresponds with Breeze of Manwe.
This only helps Elrond to be relevant faction hero in his faction.

Level 10: Vilya's Blessing - Vilya grants your forces a powerful blessing. All allied buildings within the base get +50% armour and resistance to siege.
Reduces the cooldown of heroic abilities all over the map and that of spells.
Units in the vicinity of Elrond receive -25% damage and are immune to magic.
Lasts for a long duration.

What do you think?

You know what is problem for me  ... -%25 here, +50% there etc. ... you know, for me it's boring, generic and not magic for Elven rings. And this is also unfocused, no longer "mix man" Elrond please.
Attack - armor buff fits to passive ability of levels where hero can receive armor, not for special effects.
I can still see little conflicts with Cirdan's skillset and Elrond's level five skill.

Edit: By the way I've renamed it - from Vilya's restoration to Vilya's preservation, in order to be more loyal to Tolkien and both effects.

[Walküre]

I still don't like that possible conflict with the central spell; the ability would be active, but the effect is nonetheless the same. Passive features, associated to cooldown reduction, are quite enough already.

I understand your point. Yet, it is so much hard to imagine grandiose concepts, if the focus is on support and other solutions are used for other abilities. I was intent to craft an ability that would bless the main bodies of the faction: heroes, spells, units and buildings. A broad-affecting blessing. We could do away with bonuses and re-formulate it as follows:

Level 10: Vilya's Blessing - Vilya grants your forces a powerful blessing. All allied buildings within the base have greater resistance to siege.
Reduces the cooldown of heroic abilities all over the map and that of spells.
Units in the vicinity of Elrond are immune to magic.
Lasts for a long duration.

Círdan only repairs structures; also, I've modified his ultimate ability to benefit siege weapons and ships solely

[Tiberius Ogden]

Level 10: Vilya's Preservation - All heroic abilities in the vicinity of Elrond are continously restored. Buildings, units and heroes in large radius are immune to fire. All allied forces on the map are protected from magic for a long duration. Left click to activate.

Suggestion battle begins!
To be serious - I've switched that and added fire resistance. I still fear that armor bonus for base would be OP.

We're still mirroring Nenya, but in different way.
Closer to Vilya and Elrond, stronger the effect.

- Rank 10: Nenya's Cleansing. All allied units and buildings on the map are continously healed for a long duration. Units in the vicinity of heroes with Gifts of Lorien additionally become fearless and can't be knocked to the ground. Buildings in the vicinity of heroes with Gifts are immune to fire.

I still think that Vilya is currently on the same level of power like Nenya. Maybe even more powerful, cause in Nenya's case there are limitations concerning Gifts heroes.

I also think that fire resistance should be implemented in all three rings (For structures through gifts heroes in case of Nenya, Narya's fire resistance for Gandalf, and fire resistance for all in Elrond's large radius in Vilya's case). Fire and light were for Tolkien something what is for us magic. I can clearly imagine that preservation power of three elven rings meant protection against fires of Mordor or Isengard.

Preservation is very important trait of Vilya, maybe the most important.
Resistance to Narya, cause maybe only thanks to Narya Gandalf resisted to evil and kept fighting, and as only one Istari fulfilled his task.
And Nenya's cleansing, because after destruction of Dol Guldur, thanks to Galadriel forest was cleansed.

Edit: I would accept global effect for restoration as well:

Level 10: Vilya's Preservation - All allied buildings, units and heroes on the map are protected from magic. Main base is additionally immune to fire. Heroic abilities are continously restored for a long period. Left click to activate.

Edit 2: And I would risk restoration of unit abilities ... cause it really fits to gameplay and logic behind the concept. After all Arwen heals actively (ability) and passively (spellbook spell) too, so why her father shouldn't?
Now without fire resistance effect.

Level 10: Vilya's Restoration - All heroic and unit abilities are continously restored for a long period. Buildings, units and heroes on the map are protected from magic. Left click to activate.

Edit 3: But possible would be also this:

Level 10: Vilya's Preservation - All heroes and units in the vicinity of Elrond are continously healed, their abilities slowly restored and along with the structures protected from magic for a long period. Left click to activate.

It would mean return of vanilla restoration, although slightly reworked with additional effect. While Nenya means global healing with Gifts heroes and their bonuses, Vilya is centered around great healer Elrond who protects his realm agaist enemy magic and overall preserves it thanks to elven ring.
We all know that healing fits to Elrond and fits to Imladris, to Middle-earth spa. Our intentions to beat Nenya were pointless, cause both rings had probably the same effects (only Narya was used in different way - more actively and not centered on one place). We can only assume that Galadriel used Nenya more cleverly to protect her realm, so global effect over the whole forest (faction) quite fits. Imladris was small place, so reduce Vilya's effect on ring bearer vicinity is also quite logical.

If you look on Elrond's full skillset ... heal, restoration, and some additonal effect worthy of ultimate ability (magic) were something that was missing, and now everything is included in one last ability which highlights his role in the faction while his mass slayer role is unchanged.

ELROND

Level 1: Rage of the Loudwater - Elrond raises the waters of the Bruinen in defence of his people, summoning a powerful flood in the form of a mighty horse to crush enemies in the target area. At levels 3, 5, 7, and 10, an additional flood horse appears (maximum 5). Left click to activate.

Level 3: Mount - Elrond mounts or dismounts his horse.

Level 5: Ancient Equipment - Elrond draws his old sword Hadhafang and puts on his battle armour. Elrond permanently gains +25% armour and inflicts area-of-effect damage. Units in his vicinity also gain +25% armour. (Passive ability)

Level 7: Wuthering Gale - Elrond summons a raging whirlwind around himself which will heavily damage surrounding enemy units, knocking them down and drawing them towards Elrond. Left click to activate.

Level 10: Vilya's Preservation - All heroes and units in the vicinity of Elrond are continously healed, their abilities slowly restored and along with the structures protected from magic for a long period. Left click to activate.

Edit 4 (and hopefully the last one):

If you want to focus on siege, than pure recyclation of Lorien fortress upgrade would also be fine and even balance wise (cause it only affects siege attacks, and not all spellls, units, heroes like invincibility).

https://youtu.be/TsrbJHQkxa0?t=410

Level 10: Vilya's Preservation - Hidden refugee is immune to siege attacks for a long period. Inside the base heroic abilities are continuously restored.
Left click to activate.

Together with restoration we're really creating hidden sanctuary where heroes can rest and recover without fear that enemy will break the gate.

Edit 5 (and certainly not last)  ... but I like it the most to be honest.

Level 10: Vilya's Preservation - Magic of the mightiest elven ring preserves Imladris from evil influences. All alied units, heroes and buldings on the map are immune to magic, fire, frost and poison. Heroic abilities are continuously restored for a long period.
Left click to activate.

And for Gandalf's Narya only resistance to fire and frost, it's regular stance after all.

[AulëTheSmith]

Ok guys, you can finally count me on board about the proposal. I generally agree with the overhaul, even though we still have to solve some main points.
I'll start leaving my idea for Vilya

Level 10: Vilya, Mightiest of The Three :
 Vilya's protection: The Ring of Air shields Rivendell from any evil menace. Units,heroes,walls, gates and buildings inside your base will sustain -75% damage.   
Vilya's preservation: Vilya's influece ensures a minimum amount of good and order in Middle Earth. For the entire duration of the effect the Ring of Air restores the spirit of all the heroes (also allied) on the entire map. The cooldown of their abilities is reduced. 

I'd take into account also the other (less known) aspect of Vilya you quoted somewhere here. I deem it important as well, since probably had much influence on the events of MIddle Earth. A cool way would be connecting his influence (of "good" and "order") to the heroes. My idea is that the Ring could have relieved the Burdens/tasks of good heroes all across middle Earth. In a slighter and more casual/spread way with respect to Narya (which is instead really focused on amplifing Gandalf's magic and improving the courage of people around him, so a local but more intense effect with respect to Vilya, in this sense).

Oh i forgot to mention one thing, just in case: in the future this effect wouldn't be redundant with Angmar central spell. If i remember well the willing of Edain team is to change it in the future. There are some suggestions on the forum about it.

Another thing: saying that units can receive -100% damage as proposed by our dear moderator Walkure, could solve the problem (tecnically speaking) of invulnerability that stuck on units even if you go outside the base. I.e if you count the effect as leadership it should be possible to confine it inside certain borders. It's the only real difference between invincibility and -100% damage. I call up some expert in coding to find out if what i guessed is correct  .
By the way, in the description you can call it as you want it makes no difference 

[Walküre]

My problem with Vilya is that we have to incorporate restoring effects in its concept and make sure that the said Ring equals Nenya, at the same time. I understand that we shouldn't necessarily think about something greater than the Ring of Water, but equalising their in-game powers is much arduous already.

With the coming of the next patch, Nenya will heal all allied units and buildings continuously, in every corner of the map, for 30 seconds. How can we match something of such magnitude? I guess the influence of Vilya should therefore be multiple, ranging from restoration/refreshment (Rivendell as a place of solace and equilibrium in the world) to considerable protection (shielding the lands in which the Ring is kept from decay and harm). If balance seems to concern you, note that Elrond will cost 3000 resources and what we're discussing is an ultimate feature. It just has to be meaningful and efficacious enough

• If we talk about protection, we can't exclude buildings. In this sense, I think that blessing all allied bases is really sound as a premise. Invincibility, although magnificently suitable, entails serious issues: balance-breaking effects, binding the own ability's timer, and invulnerability is also inexorably tied to units/heroes only; that is, it cannot be confined in a single place. That's why I suggest -75% received damage for structures (values may go down, if you find them too high). It's the only way in which we can create a decent shield.
• Reducing the cooldown of heroic abilities and spellbook spells globally, sounds really good. A very nice of an expedient to incorporate refreshment in the Ring.
• Thirdly, what is Vilya supposed to do in regards to units? I believe that, as a third effect, all units in Elrond's vicinity should be immune to magic. Another way via which the Ring of Air preserves from evil.

Vilya would wherefore bless the main bodies/components of the faction, exploring different themes as its nature compels.

[Tiberius Ogden]

Problem is that we're now locked by wishes of some users to keep restoration. If we remove it, the world ends.
Two things Aule:
1) You're proposing two separate effects (as a result of the sentence above), which I can't image to be implemented in Edain. We should focus on one logical description.
2) I think you're right that difference between invincilibity and -100% attack means that second option you can counter by bonuses. My problem with -100% attack is viusal ... units and heroes will stupidly fight with you units but without effect. It's illogical for me, why you should keep attacking where there is no effect. Invincibility solves the logic - he can't be attacked that's why you can't him attack. ... it really is never ending thread ...

I still think that we overlooked something ... some other effects, even concepts from the previous versions ... because we're locked either in siege aspect, or resistance aspect (plus we're trying to implement restoration as well, somehow). We completely ruled out healing, because Nenya will heal, but thanks to Aule I realized that there can be also other options how to heal than slow permanent healing across the map.

Walküre,
just two elven weather spell which will be gone in the upcoming. Maybe they help us a little.

The holy light of Aman rises at the firmament. Cancels out ice rain, snow flurry and darkness. Temporarily paralyses enemy units.

The elves can see the stars of Elbereth and gain hope. This cancels the Darkness power and the Freezing Rain power. In addition, all friendly heroes and buildings gain +75% armor for a short time.

And by the way - if Nenya affects only units and buildings (and not heroes), then we're on the right track that Elrond will focus Vilya's power primarily on heroes (and then on the rest of hidden refugee).

[Walküre]

Your arguments about invincibility are more than reasonable. So, I feel like proposing a final version:

Level 10: Vilya's Blessing - Vilya shields Middle-earth from evil and restores the forces of the Good. All buildings within allied bases are invincible (walls included) for a duration. Furthermore, the Ring reduces the cooldown of all heroic abilities and spells.
Lasts 30 seconds.

- Invincibility is saved, together with the whole magical feeling. Uniqueness is too preserved, since the effect involves all your allies.
- It lasts no longer than Nenya, thereby maintaining a clear limit for balance.
- Restoration/Refreshment is equally kept, for the jubilation of this thread's attendees
- I think there is no need for some influence on units. Elrond has already a decent leadership and Arwen provides healing. The faction itself consists of the most resilient type of troops ever.

Sorry for the 'suggestion war', but I sense we're close to a definitive solution

EDIT: Your suggestion addresses the right themes, but I consider an armour boost as quite underwhelming for the Ring's magic. Also, heroes would be greatly benefited already, thanks to refreshment; isn't the increasing of their armour quite redundant, especially if Arwen can also heal them?

[Tiberius Ogden]

They will cry that invincibility isn't balance wise. You know this. You have foreseen it. It is the risk we all took.

So something like this? I excluded units, cause Nenya affects primarily units.

Level 10: Vilya's Preservation - Magic of the mightiest elven ring preserves Imladris from evil influences. All friendly heroes and buildings on the map gain +75% armor and are resistant to magic. Heroic abilities are continuously restored for a long period.
Left click to activate.

Because we want long effect and 30 seconds definitely are.
And it would mean that Cirdan's level 10 ability must be slightly modified.