Elrond - Lord of Imladris

[Walküre]

My problem with the flood vs whirlwind is the gameplay of the two. The flood does not fufill the same gameplay role. The flood in the books is a power cast from well outside line of sight and would be an army killer ability, is this what you are advocating here? Three measly water horses from direct line of sight in no way matches with the lore, and in no way are equivalent to the gameplay tactics of the tornado. Lord Elrond in the Edain mod is a hero support and army supporter. Healing, Foresight, experience gift all contribute to that. A leadership that aura passively reduces cooldowns and boosts healing would fit well with the powers of Vilya. That leaves one last power. This power should be a strategic power, one that can change the course of the battle with the correct application. Maybe something like the Arnor spellbook flood would fit here, with toned down damage and increased cast range, but a short range flood like he had in 3.8.1 is utterly useless to say the least. It does not contribute to the hero's abilities in support, nor does it make sense with the heroes role in the battlefield. He is supposed to be a semi-backline hero not changing into battle. Unless you decouple cast range from the spell, flood just becomes a spell you only use as a last resort, and that seems kinda odd.

And second proposal:
1) Mount/dismount
Lord of Imladris is able to ride a horse
3) Elrond's advice
Small amount of experience to hero
5) Armour of high elves
Passive ability - bonus effect for friendly units
7) Loud waters fury
Water blast in targeting area (but stronger than previous one on first level)
10) Vilya's restoration
Power of the elven ring heals nearby allies and refreshes ability timer of friendly heroes

Then, the second proposal would be a good compromise.
My point, infact, is that I totally agree with the concept of the flood (lore accurate and characteristic for Imladris) and the flood itself is indeed an useful power that can be used to support your units, as a disruptive attack that counters the enemy ranks.
And Vilya would thus be represented as a powerful 'tool' of healing/restoring for your units/heroes and allies.

My main concern is about the whirlwind for Elrond, not really lore accurate, that should remain an iconic characteristic of Galadriel 

[Gandalf The Gray]

galadriel needs to have the tornado to be more unique and lore friendly

[Walküre]

galadriel needs to have the tornado to be more unique and lore friendly

Yes, as the Dark Queen; but also her normal form will use whirls/storm against structures as a primary attack.
So, I would like that this ability remains an unique and iconic power of her 

[Gandalf The Gray]

well and a white horse maybe.........

[TiberiusOgden]

Back to Elrond please.

[Walküre]

Warrior Princess Galadriel 

[TiberiusOgden]

Well, this is about different story.

And here, we are talking about Elrond's armour, I have to say.

[Gandalf The Gray]

[Walküre]

Impressive, she really looks like a Valkyrie 

Now, really, let's return to the poor Elrond and his golden armour 

[Gandalf The Gray]

ow yes him
 well i rly want the golden armor form dol gudur

[Eldalf]

Elrond Short Range flood is a waste. Give him a unit summon instead. Why do you want a short range spell on a hero who ostensibly shouldn't be in a position to use it?

Furthermore, there is no lore to support Galadrial with a tornado in the books.

There is some lore of her casting down the walls of Dol Guldor, but that would suggest more than anything an anti-magic spell, as it was known that the walls of the great fortresses were held up as much by enchantment as by stone. Furthermore, someone was talking about Gandalf's word of power as iconic from the games, well That is what the tornado is for Elrond

So I ask, what the hell does Elrond's flood in it's current format add to the of Elrond? Go beyond your Galadrial fetish, and consider what does it add?

I also ask you to consider my other point, the overall gameplay, If we want to battle this out in lore, then I would say that according to lore there is little justification in any offensive spells aside from shafts of light.

Also, Elrond as a War-Lord is against the lore. After he essentially takes the role of the leader of the Noldor in the West, he does not ride any more into battle. He becomes the supporting figure, with Glorfidel taking that role.

I would have you consider that the relationship between the Glorfidel and Elrond in the armies of Rivendell are much akin to the relationship between General Paton and Eisenhower. One directs, guides, supplies and informs the other, while the other is a powerfully charismatic and personally powerful individual who leads forces into battle.

To get the topic of the golden armour, I feel it is superfluous, there is no direct need to give him more sets of armour or to make him more powerful in direct battle. These are not his roles anymore. Much as Galadrial had given up the role of the warrior princess, so had Elrond given up the role of the War-Lord. Instead both maintained the defenses of their realm through mystical means and utilized their respective means of far-viewing (Galadrial her mirror) (Elrond his innate talent) to coordinate and strive against the forces of evil.

[Adrigabbro]

Why would Elrond's flood be a short-ranged spell? It can be changed, it is up to the team. For instance it can stay as a short Area of Effect spell while being cast-able from afar. In that case it would support exactly the same goal as you argue the tornado supports while being more true to the character.

I think you're right about the horse though: Elrond would hardly ever raid into battle, unlike Aragorn who is more susceptible to do so.

[Eldalf]

I would be more than happy with the flood gaining an increased cast range, and perhaps an area increase if it came to it, but I would also have concerns about the area denial function. I know for myself, I do not use the tornado to kill an enemy army, I use it to control the way the opposing player deploys theirs. Perhaps with a ramp up of the damage and the cast range the flood could instead play a similar role.

There is however a significant element of iconism in the tornado spell. It has always been a staple of Elrond in the BFME game series, and to remove it from him would in some respect be like taking word of power from Gandalf. That said, I do not agree with word of power for gandalf even existing, but it is an argument worth considering. If other heroes have powers for the sake of being "Iconic" then should not the same reasoning be applied here.

We can even apply that to Galadrial, from when do we derive this argument of Galadrial wielding the power of the storm if not from BFME and it's imagery? Nothing in the writing of Tolkien alludes to her as being the Storm Queen, except the use of allegory in the mirror sequence.

Anyway that is my couple of primary concerns. Thematically, it is not sufficient to say that Elrond was not capable of sorcery, it is clear that within the boarders of Imaldris he much like Galadrial with Lothlorien was the primary defensive mechanism. Unlike the woodland realm, it is clear that the Golden wood and Rivendell were both protected by enchantments.

Furthermore as an army leader, Elrond had not marched to war since the Last Alliance. By the War of the Ring he was consultative rather than martial.

These taken together should see Elrond as a backline hero. Where Galadrial is a bulding destroyer/supporter, Elrond should be a healer/buffer/supporter. His powers need to reflect his engagement with enabling others to make direct war which he himself no longer does.

[Adrigabbro]

I guess it is a matter of representation then. I just don't see Elrond mastering whirlwinds, but I do picture Galadriel summoning tornadoes or Gandalf being able to one time destroy armies ; regardless of the lore and what Tolkien did or did not write down.

Still, I definitely share your backline Elrond point of view. I believe his skillset must be thought so.


EDIT: It's not really that I don't want Elrond to summon tornados. It's rather that I prefer Galadriel to have this ability, and I think there are other powers that would suit better for him (for instance: foresight, wisdom, leadership, flood)

[Eldalf]

The Istari thing is one which has always really annoyed me. In every instance, Tolkien wrote that it was expressly forbidden for them to come arrayed in power, that by the nature of their incarnation their nature itself was limited in the extreme. The only point any of that changes is with Gandalf the White, in which his mandate is changed, rather than being the one to inspire resistance he is now given leave to actively resist and we see that with his weaponized beams of light. Word of Power is something which directly goes against his very mission.

But I digress. The topic of the Tornado is one I feel probably is far to flashy for the setting. To be honest, magic in Lord of the Rings is either some kind of technology or item based enchantment, or is wielded in nature by imbuning ones soul in the land in which you dwell. The only instance in which we see a direct combat spell is when Sauron sets Gil-Galad aflame.

However, the BFME games have their own iconic spells and flashyness. Elrond has had the tornado for years and when I think of Elrond in this game I think of the area denying support hero, who empowers other elves and forces enemy armies to collapse on a flank to let the armies of the elves outmaneuver their enemies. If we want to talk about getting back to the intent of Tolkien, then we need to be willing to do this consistently. Likewise, if gameplay is to be the higher calling we need to do that consistently so to if we want to talk about iconism.

Anyway,  I am going to give another draft run of powers.

1st ability, gift of experience. Elrond is to the race of men what Cirdan has been to the elves, he gives a boost of experience to heroes battalions in a small radius.

2nd Ability; Vilya's Restoration; Passive aura that increases in power with Elrond's level. Vilya the greatest of the three rings restores the world into a pristine state. At level three, this ability increases the passive healing rate of all heroes and battalions in an area. At level seven this ability additionally enables Battalions to restore one dead member every 15 seconds. At level 10 this ability additionally reduces the cooldown of abilities by 25% for every battalion and hero in the radius.

3rd Ability; Restoration; This ability heals heroes and units by 50% within the radius and refreshes the cooldown of their abilities.

4th Ability; Foresight; Elrond is possessed of a powerful natural gift of foresight, this ability reveals the entire map for a period of time.

5th Ability; Waters of the Bruienen; A somewhat weakened version of the Anor spellbook power, this ability will knock down and wash away units in a moderate radius, with a large cast range and cooldown.

This Elrond is thus the hero you keep behind the army and he grows in power over time. With the aura, you have the option to also include some armour passives for Elrond himself, and perhaps it might be worth considering switch restoration and the aura's name. Instead association restoration with the direct application of Elrond's ring, and let the aura represent his healing prowess.
Either way, in this sense we have a firm backline hero, who provides healing and strategic support to the army of Rivendell.