Elrond - Lord of Imladris

[Adrigabbro]

I agree with Eldalf ; it would be nonsense to claim playing a Tolkien game and giving foresight to Gildor but not to Elrond.

[TiberiusOgden]

shouldn't a level 1 power remain a 'moderately weak' and basic power for all the duration of the game?

It isn't necessary, many heroes have some progress and we wanted something unique and iconic for him.

If it gets stronger and enhanced, wouldn't there be a risk of overpowering?

Logically there must be some normal values for damage ... and there won't be any crucial differences concerning damage while Elrond's leveling so definitely I am not afraid - single whirlwind created by normal hero may cause more balance problems on the battlefield.

[LordDainIronfoot]

well his damage wont make him Aragorn so I tihnk there is no  fear of overpowering him! Tienity and Tiberius has really made a excellnet concept about Elrond,as I said the only thing I tihnk he should have is his Foresgiht instead of giving Heroes XP but rather than tha I am with them all the way!

[TiberiusOgden]

shouldn't a level 1 power remain a 'moderately weak' and basic power for all the duration of the game?

It isn't necessary, many heroes have some progress and we wanted something unique and iconic for him.

If it gets stronger and enhanced, wouldn't there be a risk of overpowering?

Logically there must be some normal values for damage ... and there won't be any crucial differences concerning damage while Elrond's leveling so definitely I am not afraid - single whirlwind created by normal hero may cause more balance problems on the battlefield.

it would be nonsense to claim playing a Tolkien game and giving foresight to Gildor but not to Elrond.

Just tell me:
1) Which ability has to be removed from Elrond in order to have foresight?
2) Which effect of foresight?
3) And what will be new ability for Gildor as a scout hero?
4) If you want Cirdan's ability (he reveals the whole map) - what will be his last ability for his unit support role?

[Eldalf]

Cirdan could get a debuff ability. Give him something like elven mists which debuffs the damage done. It strengthens his connection to the sea, and Cirdan has a very powerful relationship with Ulmo. Alternatively, Cirdan was the foster-father of Gil-Galad, and it is likely that he would have also done a similar thing for Elrond and Elros. Why not give Cirdan the experience gift to heroes, Cirdan was the mentor for the elves as the eldest one on middle earth, Elrond was a mentor to men.

On the topic of which skill to replace on Elrond, replace the either the mount or the hero experience boost. If you are going with an experience boost aura, then having a direct increase of experience by active power would be redundant.

[LordDainIronfoot]

I think he may lose the Hero XP Boost!As for what should his Forsight do,hmm may be you can use it on an Enemy Hero and see what he can or on Enemy Battalion!?

[Adrigabbro]

Hmmm ... as for Gildor, I don't know if it would end up cool, but how about some spell that would remind of the journey to the West? In the LOTR movie I believe he is the guy who walks by Arwen's side before she decides to go back and stay.

[TiberiusOgden]

Cirdan could get a debuff ability. Give him something like elven mists which debuffs the damage done. 

But it's still elven mist which will be in the Lorien. It means that won't be unique for Cirdan, but mainly - he isn't debuffer or interferer (like Mouth of Sauron etc.) who weakens enemies, but he is unit supporter who supports them.

On the topic of which skill to replace on Elrond, replace the either the mount or the hero experience boost. If you are going with an experience boost aura, then having a direct increase of experience by active power would be redundant.

Active experience boost is for heroes vs passive leadership is for units.

I think he may lose the Hero XP Boost!

It's his iconic ability which definitely will stay. It's more accurate (Elrond's council, Elrond advice about everything). By the way - if he loses such ability his role of hero supporter will be disrupted (because there will remain only refresh ability for hero skill sets).

how about some spell that would remind of the journey to the West?

Perhaps some longer and picturesque stroll.
Really useful for scout hero. Seriously - "Journey to the West" references already has Cirdan in his skill.

[Melkor Bauglir]

However Elrond isn't an exclusively hero-support. In fact, his old abilities make him a complete hybrid-hero (2 damage abilities, 1 hero-support-ability, 1 leadership and his refresh-spell (I don't know the english name, sorry), which supports heroes and troops (eventhough it benefits heroes much more)).
For now, I actually see Arwen as Imladris' hero-support, mainly because of her leadership, while Cirdan is Imladris' main-support for troops.

[TiberiusOgden]

I completely agree - second reason of this thread is also to deal with Elrond's role.
But I think that generally we can say that he is primarily hero support and secondarily unit support for faction (so mix of Arwen and Cirdan). Flood can be kind of support on the battlefield, because it isn't too strong and it has knockback effect (generally Elrond concept is support on the battlefield and not in the background). Only one problem which I can see is whirlwind because such kind of destructive spell is characteristic for mass slayers.
If whirlwind will be gone there will be only flood as a destructive ability - so it won't be crucial. Passive skill is not only support for units but it upgrades Elrond's armour as well.
So that restoration (or Vilya in our concept) and hero XP boost will be at least two skills for his hero support role, and rest of skills will be fragmented.

[Gandalf The Gray]

just put a spell in the spellbook elrond s gift of foresight. and the effect should be revealing of the map there you go guys problem solved

[Eldalf]

You talk about water as the domain of Lorien. But consider who you are talking about, Cirdan is one of the Telri, he has a stronger connection to water than any of the elves in Middle Earth. To the point that Ulmo advises him as to massive changes that are coming, including the Ruin of Beriland.

Elrond's council is informed by his foresight. You cannot have one without the other. And it seems an absolute waste to dedicate two power slots to what are essentially the same. Merge them together and give him foresight in it's place.

[Gandalf The Gray]

they should jusst make it a spell like saruman  seeing stone

[Eldalf]

But it is not a artifact like Saruman's Palantiar or Galadrial's mirror, it is a natural ability that is inherent to Elrond. Indeed it is more fitting that he have foresight than any other ability. This is like saying in a star wars game that the Emperor should not have force lightning, that it should instead be a faction power triggered from elsewhere.

[helloa2134]

Cirdan is the most foresighted of all the Elves left in Middle-Earth, so I think it is more fitting that he has the power instead of Elrond.