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Autor Thema: Elrond - Lord of Imladris  (Gelesen 109265 mal)

Sir_Stig

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Re: Elrond - lord of Imladris
« Antwort #150 am: 24. Jul 2015, 18:16 »
Do not insult our allies, Haldir of Lórien, this is an order from your Lady  xD 8-)

I do what I want, even Tolkien can't tell me what to do!
Gildor for most useless hero 2015! :D

Gandalf The Gray

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Re: Elrond - lord of Imladris
« Antwort #151 am: 24. Jul 2015, 20:43 »
i heard the name Gildor Inglorion i know he helped frodo and sam but i dont think he should be in the game

Eldalf

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Re: Elrond - lord of Imladris
« Antwort #152 am: 25. Jul 2015, 06:07 »

It is well known that Elrond has the ability of Foresight, and it is totally acceptable.
But, since Rivendell will implement the aspect of Foresight already in three different manners (Círdan's Omniscience, Palantír of Elostirion in the Lindon watchtower and Gildor's Vision), and since the role of Elrond (Hero and Unit Supporter) as the leader of the faction is greater than the other heroes', I would say that it would be a bit unnecessary and redundant adding another foresight power to Elrond; even though we know for sure that he has that precise capability.

See, this is what bothers me. The quality was a part of his nature, arguably a legacy from Melian, at least in respect to it's power. For it to be taken from the character when it is a consequence of him being a blending of the three kin of elves, and the three races of the edain and with his Maiar blood seems to me deficient in reasoning. Take the power from elsewhere would be my preference, and ditch the horse, or alternatively one of the experience giving powers. I am not contesting that Rivendell has an abundance of map revealing powers, I accept that, however, I do think that taking the power from Elrond is not a good thing. It would be like trying to say that Galadrial should not have foresight because the mirror of Galadrial, the primary mechanism for her divination is an artifact and could be better represented by a constructed building.

I also question as to whether Cirdan should be a hero at all to be honest. He does not take part in the war of the ring, and instead stands to hold the Havens to ensure that the elves who seek to leave Middle Earth do not lose that option.

Walküre

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Re: Elrond - lord of Imladris
« Antwort #153 am: 25. Jul 2015, 22:45 »

See, this is what bothers me. The quality was a part of his nature, arguably a legacy from Melian, at least in respect to it's power. For it to be taken from the character when it is a consequence of him being a blending of the three kin of elves, and the three races of the edain and with his Maiar blood seems to me deficient in reasoning. Take the power from elsewhere would be my preference, and ditch the horse, or alternatively one of the experience giving powers. I am not contesting that Rivendell has an abundance of map revealing powers, I accept that, however, I do think that taking the power from Elrond is not a good thing. It would be like trying to say that Galadrial should not have foresight because the mirror of Galadrial, the primary mechanism for her divination is an artifact and could be better represented by a constructed building.

I also question as to whether Cirdan should be a hero at all to be honest. He does not take part in the war of the ring, and instead stands to hold the Havens to ensure that the elves who seek to leave Middle Earth do not lose that option.

The lore is a fundamental part of the Edain Mod, but must be used carefully and in the right 'quantity', because we are talking about a game, in which every faction (being them Humans, Elves or Orcs) must have the same chances to compete with the others and win.

The example of Lothlórien that you mentioned is quite significant; Galadriel must have a foresight ability, because none apart from her has it, and in fact she will have the most powerful and useful foresight ability in the Edain Mod.
Rivendell, instead, has already three different and effective types of map revealing abilities; given this fact, and given also that Elrond is not a scout or an agile hero, I would say that it would be better conveying his abilities as Hero/Unit Supporter to types of powers more useful on the battlefield.

The presence of Círdan in the Edain Mod is unquestionable, because even Elrond and other LOTR or The Hobbit characters weren't directly involved in the War of the Ring, but they are crucial heroes for their own factions.
Círdan is also the former keeper of Narya (the actual keeper in the Edain Mod) and, together with Galadriel and Celeborn, is one of the oldest Elves still living in Middle Earth, since he was born in Beleriand during the Years of the Trees  :)
« Letzte Änderung: 25. Jul 2015, 22:57 von DieWalküre »

Eldalf

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Re: Elrond - lord of Imladris
« Antwort #154 am: 25. Jul 2015, 23:56 »
I would rather see Rivendell lose all other sources of Foresight than see Elrond lose it, because it is my view such a crucial part of the Character.

helloa2134

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Re: Elrond - lord of Imladris
« Antwort #155 am: 26. Jul 2015, 00:21 »
But Foresight fits more appropriately with Cirdan,  so it will stay with him.

Gandalf The Gray

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Re: Elrond - lord of Imladris
« Antwort #156 am: 26. Jul 2015, 00:35 »
but TiberiusOgden said elrond has some kind of foresight
« Letzte Änderung: 27. Jul 2015, 19:25 von Gandalf The Gray »

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Elrond - lord of Imladris
« Antwort #157 am: 26. Jul 2015, 14:06 »
Well since Cirdan is stated by Tolkien himself to ahve may be the greatest foresight from all  it should stay with him!While the Hero XP Buff that was suggested will represent Elrond using his Foresight to aid his Allied Heroes for the upcoming struggles and thus increasing their XP!We just should think of his XP Buff as presentation of how he uses his Foresight!? :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Walküre

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Re: Elrond - lord of Imladris
« Antwort #158 am: 26. Jul 2015, 14:16 »
Well since Cirdan is stated by Tolkien himself to ahve may be the greatest foresight from all  it should stay with him!While the Hero XP Buff that was suggested will represent Elrond using his Foresight to aid his Allied Heroes for the upcoming struggles and thus increasing their XP!We just should think of his XP Buff as presentation of how he uses his Foresight!? :)

I completely agree, every aspect of Elrond would be wisely integrated.
And I'm glad that you're back, Dáin  :)

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Elrond - lord of Imladris
« Antwort #159 am: 26. Jul 2015, 14:48 »
I think this is the best way to implemend his Foresight without Cirdan losing his own or have Heroes with same Powers! :)
I will always be here,just mroe quiet and so active my friend! :) And thank you! :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Elrond - lord of Imladris
« Antwort #160 am: 27. Jul 2015, 19:22 »
According to my Modding - union progress, it seems that currently I am "Elronds Berater" (Elrond's adviser)  ... it quite fits. xD

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Elrond - lord of Imladris
« Antwort #161 am: 27. Jul 2015, 19:30 »
According to my Modding - union progress, it seems that currently I am "Elronds Berater" (Elrond's adviser)  ... it quite fits. xD
My caongratulations mate! :) It really fits you! :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Walküre

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Re: Elrond - lord of Imladris
« Antwort #162 am: 27. Jul 2015, 20:43 »
According to my Modding - union progress, it seems that currently I am "Elronds Berater" (Elrond's adviser)  ... it quite fits. xD
My caongratulations mate! :) It really fits you! :)

It's true :)
And I am an Elven Pilgrim, a Pilgrim headed to Aman I hope  :)
« Letzte Änderung: 27. Jul 2015, 21:10 von DieWalküre »

TiberiusOgden

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Elven rings of power
« Antwort #163 am: 2. Aug 2015, 20:03 »
I am just thinking openly ... about three elven rings, we have nice indications concerning Narya:
Zitat
It is described as having the power to inspire others to resist tyranny, as well as (in common with the other Three Rings) hiding the wielder from remote observation (except by the wielder of the One) and giving resistance to the weariness of time:

"Take this ring, master," he said, "for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill."
― Círdan the Shipwright

And concerning Nenya as well:
Zitat
Nenya's power was preservation, protection, and concealment from evil.
or
Zitat
The power of this Ring strengthened and beautified the realm of Lothlórien
etc.

We have already stated in this thread that we really like Edain implementation of that rings (Narya provides strong supports and Nenya provides massive protection).

But we have no information concerning Vilya and effect of that ring.
So we should build on this and general sentence?
Zitat
They were forged by Celebrimbor and his smiths with the desire of "understanding, making, and healing" and granted the power to preserve all things unstained.

I've already implemented Vilya as a ring of recovering/healing into my proposal, but maybe we should work with words "understanding" and "making" as well. What do you think? :)

Sources: Simarillion and Tolkien Gateway.net
« Letzte Änderung: 2. Aug 2015, 20:06 von TiberiusOgden »

Walküre

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Re: Elrond - Lord of Imladris
« Antwort #164 am: 2. Aug 2015, 21:02 »
Logical analysis  :)

Vilya is the strongest of the Three, and it generally sums up all the shared elements and characteristics of these Rings of Power, completely untainted from the evil influence of Sauron; the common elements are, of course, their focus on healing and preserving in many different ways, that depend on whom wields them and how it does it  :)


Narya preserves the Hope and the Will of Freedom against any form of tyranny, Nenya the Joy, the Bliss and the Timeless Atmosphere of the place in which it is kept.
Vilya has a similar power to Nenya, resembling the Splendour of Eressëa or even Valinor itself, as if Rivendell were a 'mortal reflection' of the Undying Lands; and Vilya, most importantly, is kept by Elrond, who is arguably the best Healer of Middle Earth.
Elrond's powers are mainly focused on healing and recovering, and that's why I totally prefer and support a display of this kind of Vilya, rather than a problematic destructive power as it is the whirlwind; destructive potential that Elrond can already use via his Flood power, totally covered by the lore, by the way  :)

Also, I would add another significant passage about Nenya  ;)
These are the exact words of Galadriel to Frodo in FOTR (book).

Zitat
`I know what it was that you last saw,' she said; `for that is also in my mind. Do not be afraid! But do not think that only by singing amid the trees, nor even by the slender arrows of elven-bows, is this land of Lothlórien maintained and defended against its Enemy. I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed! '

Zitat
`Yes,' she said, divining his thought, `it is not permitted to speak of it, and Elrond could not do so. But it cannot be hidden from the Ring-bearer, and one who has seen the Eye. Verily it is in the land of Lórien upon the finger of Galadriel that one of the Three remains. This is Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, and I am its keeper.
`He suspects, but he does not know - not yet. Do you not see now wherefore your coming is to us as the footstep of Doom? For if you fail, then we are laid bare to the Enemy. Yet if you succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlórien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten.'

The powers of Nenya involve kilometres of lands and hundreds of years, and the Ring of Adamant is clearly also the source of the military and magical Protection of the Golden Wood by the malicious influence of Sauron.
Galadriel admits it, the chants among the trees and the bows of the brave people of her realm are not enough to resist; the effects of Nenya are mainly physical, focused on the physical environment and realm of Lothlórien (greatest definition of Magic in Tolkien), as Galadriel's Magic modifies and manipulates the surrounding Weather, creating an unnatural Calmness in a dark and dangerous territory (Southern Mirkwood).

And we surely know that Galadriel likes creating Whirlwinds/Storms and magical Mists, while Elrond prefers the Water  8-)