[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Lothlorien Suggestions
Galadriel
TiberiusOgden:
ANCIENT MIGHT OF GALADRIEL by Walküre
Ok, after your very precious contributions, I decided to refine the whole concept a bit. The general guidelines and premises will nonetheless remain the same though; that is, the core conceptual arguments and lore structure that justify the very existence of this feature in the game.
ANCIENT MIGHT OF GALADRIEL
The heart of the concept
--- Zitat ---My concept is mainly fashioned on what we see in BOTFA, during the banishment of Sauron. A controversial interpretation that both received praises for being innovative and a lot of criticism for its evident grotesque (if not macabre) touch. Nevertheless, left aside film-related debates, my ideas are centred on that aspect: Seaweed Galadriel. A display of power that neither represents the 'normal' nature of Galadriel, nor does it come close to her having accepted the One Ring and thus becoming the Dark Queen of Middle Earth. A truly 'medium' appearance between Light (normal) and Darkness (Dark Queen); symbolising that, albeit the sacred prowess of the Lady of Light, she has not been tested yet and so maintains in her heart deep ambitions of power (what has characterised her since her departure from Aman for this very reason). Her renowned ambition is quite far from being evil (given that she doesn't seek power via violent and subduing means), but it undoubtedly holds something obscure and dark about it. As DrHouse already pointed out fairly: dark sides of her personality and inner might.
I do have evidences that her initial portrayal was really not intended to be that grotesque: I found some non-CGI images portraying what could be viewed as a just compromise between the explosion of power that she conveys and the need to render her spooky and quite sinister, in order to adapt to that special context. Nevertheless, pictures or not, Seaweed Galadriel has logical purposes behind her atypical concept, based on the specific BOTFA film-related lore that PJ and the writers make usage of for their script: that is, once she heads to Dol Guldur to save Gandalf, she has her force and sacred aura gradually drained by the poisonous influence of that dark fortress and by the action of Sauron himself, who, as a beacon, attracts and pulls out her latent obscure ambitions which transform her in a sort of underwater spirit (as I stated, not necessarily evil, but obscure anyway). This is something PJ, Philippa Boyens and another writer explained exhaustively in a making-of video concerning the White Council sequence. The whole eerie environment thus functions as a transitional/transfiguration altar, in the sense that Galadriel is eventually tainted and absorbs part of the very place's properties (altering her proper essence).
An additional theme to deal with could be the supernatural might of the Eldar themselves. Their purest and rough magical potential, which is not always deemed so much holy by whom it involves. Men in the Third Age, just to present an example, feared magic in almost all its forms, because they could not completely understand its nature and due to the contrast between the mightiest Eldar's power and the disenchanted motive of Middle-earth. The Good made often usage of terrible and destructive devices to contest the Evil, as the Valar did in the wars against Melkor. Whenever I think about those multifaceted and more obscure characterisation of the Elves, my mind relates to this particular song, which is one of the most important themes of the LOTR soundtrack: the great grief and regret of the Eldar for having unintentionally helped Sauron's schemes via the forging of the Rings of Power, although they had yearned the restoration in the mortal World of the unattainable bliss of Valinórë.
Adding to that, in another part of the video, Philippa Boyens (one of the main three writers of LOTR and the Hobbit, along with PJ and his wife) confirms that Galadriel loses plenty of her powers in banishing Sauron, and that's why she consequently appears a bit 'detached' in LOTR. Now, given that this last statement is really not so much loyal to the lore (Galadriel, in fact, is author of pivotal deeds in the War of the Ring), I nonetheless wanted to explore this loss motive more deeply, ending up with deciding to slow her movements down whenever she chooses to take that form (due to the amount of power that she has to bear). Following this premise, I really like the suggestions you made about health and other possible consequences. Although the concept itself is still at its very first stage, this relevant theme could be a solid base to start from, indeed.
Both accepting and refusing the One Ring will cause her to necessarily lose this stance system. Especially, receiving the blessing from the West leads to her relinquishing those ambitions, and she ultimately hands over the phial to Frodo. Therefore, I don't think that she needs a stance system at all after taking the One Ring, but I had honestly not thought about possible concepts for her blessed form yet; henceforth, proposing that kind of features may be an option too. The core reasoning is that this will give her the possibility to have some chances to counter units and heroes in dangerous contexts, without altering and disrupting her coherent role so much. Galadriel is also, along with Sauron, one of the most prominent and iconic heroes in the game, and I thus sincerely believe that she greatly deserves such unique stance system as the Lord of Mordor's (with all the due differences).
--- Ende Zitat ---
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5MTlpluRZw
First of all, I think we can find a just compromise between our differing views, by basically merging some aspects of the proposed abilities and then reducing them to three. As I already pointed out above, what I deem vital is avoiding to make this stance form a sort of poorer version of the Dark Queen, bearing in mind that the option we are discussing is primarily supposed to be used in very situational and emergency situations (resulting in her acquiring a hero-interfer role and endurance against monsters). This defensive feature would nonetheless be legitimate for a 3000-resource heroine, who is the leader of Lothlórien and the mightiest Elf in the Third Age.
Furthermore, the stance system is meant to twist her supportive abilities in interfering features, to mirror (with the due differences) what happens with Sauron: the idea of mutating nature/essence (reflected by her appearance) and unlocking aggressive powers. Galadriel, as the Dark Lord's nemesis in Middle-earth, would therefore be granted the chance to show how much disruptive her prowess can be towards the enemies (and the shift to this more aggressive form would exactly be symbolised by her transformation).
That said, she is really not to become (even in that temporary form) a mass-slayer option for her faction at all (thus my opposition to disproportionate features). This seaweed form is exactly set apart from any logic and reference involving the One Ring. As a conceptual note aside, I hope you appreciate the fact that her normal supportive properties would be inverted in deep interference and gloomy influence; just like her appearance does (symbolising the twist even more effectively).
Since I know that this thread has a natural proclivity in inspiring me to produce very long and intricate walls of text, I will then restrain myself a bit and opt for a synthetical exposition.
General Elements
The option Ancient Might will replace her stance system. In the whole duration of said form, she won't be capable of attacking both units and structures, and her movements will be slowed down severely. Always taking quite for granted that she should always need to be escorted by other heroes and troops, those collateral consequences are well compensated by the negative influence she casts.
The basic properties of Galadriel's presence in the game must absolutely remain unaltered. She must continue to remain behind the frontline and cast her Magic (supportive or disruptive) via long-range abilities.
Ancient Might turns Galadriel into her Drowned/Seaweed form, affecting her with the above-mentioned restrictions and unlocking temporarily (from a minimum of 30 seconds, to a maximum of four minutes) a Palantír that consists of the following abilities.
ANCIENT MIGHT
Uncanny Presence (level 1): Passive. All heroes and monsters in her vicinity gets -15% on attack and speed. Galadriel's armour against them is increased by 30%.
Wrath of the Elven Queen (level 3): The Queen of Wood-elves unleashes her terrible wrath in the form of a concentric explosion of power. All enemies in its radius are violently knocked back and harmed.
Very fitting graphical effects for her blast could be the ones showcased in this video, which is a presentation of Ealendril's Chronicles Submod. The FX I'm referring to are the ones shown at the beginning (at 0:20). The current rendition should be modified a little though, doing away with Sauron's iconic sound and with the whole heating effect (making the blast faster will also do well for our purpose).
https://youtube.com/watch?v=U8mHuIij5fY&feature=youtu.be
You Have no Power! (level 7): Once it's used on a single hero, the enemy hero deals no damage for a brief amount of time (and, if its ordinary attack contemplates this, it doesn't knock back either until the effect is over).
Banishment into the Void (level 10): Galadriel unleashes the might of her phial and casts her confining spell against the Evil. All enemy heroes, monsters and units in a radius will flee in terror, their abilities will be reset and the nearest units are knocked back by the shockwave of the very power.
IMPORTANT: The usage of this ability will automatically force Galadriel to return to her normal form. This ultimate display of might will drain all her remaining energies to maintain the Drowned/Seaweed appearance, as it's exactly shown in BOTFA.
1. Eerie Aura
2. You Have no Power!
3. Banishment into the Void (This one is probably my favourite).
--- Zitat ---The model of Galadriel in the evil campaign of BFME2 shall be used for Ancient Might, so that the Edain Team won't have to work on anything related to graphics. I also find this very appearance of hers very apt for our needs, given that it marvellously depicts the in-between characterisation of this feature (between the Lady of Light and the Dark Queen). I also think that the aura surrounding her well portrays Galadriel's obscure prowess coming forth, as it was conceived in the original intentions of WETA. Furthermore, I view those effects (FX) as a sort of sea mist being spread while she's mutating her nature, in line with the exact definition provided by WETA: an underwater spirit! Last but not least, water connects automatically with Nenya and the vast seas of Middle-earth, which Galadriel longs greatly to journey beyond (desire that her Ring has constantly been nourishing).
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ap85xo2Ejb0
Speaking about graphics and animations, I dare say that there shouldn't be big problematical issues concerning these fields. A complete model of Galadriel is already at hand. Eerie Aura and You Have no Power don't need an animation at all, Wrath of the Elven Queen could simply utilise one of her ordinary animations for the attack (when she raises her arm) and for the third one there is Frodo's phial animation (which would be perfectly fitting for her equally); the ultimate ability (banishment) will also show a blue-ish explosion, based on Dark Queen's ordinary attack (that ghostly blue-ish tone will exactly indicate that she's resembling a lesser version of her terrible form). Her slowed down movements could imitate the pace of common peasants.
--- Ende Zitat ---
SOUNDS: German and English.
Galadriel's whirl against structures: Storm
Eerie Aura (in loop): Enchanting Words
Wrath of the Elven Queen: ''I will destroy you'' (the German version of the line has been provided as well)
You Have no Power: ''You have no power here!''
Banishment into the Void: ''Go back...''
I decided to do away with her earthquake ability, as it would objectively have been too much and contrasted with the main lore/gameplay principles of this proposal (not to mention the evident resemblance with the Dark Queen). I believe this may be a very balanced design, and the fact that this feature is temporary (and, I suppose, characterised by a quite long recharging time) reduces the risk of overpowering her unnecessarily. This is still a work-in-progress concept, though, and I'm more than open to any new suggestion or insight (concerning balance, in particular). You are also absolutely free to propose new names for her powers. A response from the Edain Team might be great too, especially when it comes to the technical field. I'm sure this proposal has indeed some chances to be developed decently and to finally bloom as a new element of the very game (endowing Galadriel, in a clever way, with significant traits that correspond perfectly to her leading role).
All graphical aspects are obviously secondary at this initial stage (hoping to deal with them later, even though I already have some ideas). Nevertheless, last year I had already presented a few suitable sounds for our scope (both in German and in English) and I fortunately managed to retrieve the BOTFA concept arts I referred to above from the unexplored width of the Internet. As you can see, non-CGI Seaweed Galadriel fits our context very well: this appearance displays her obscure potential and ambitions (not evil, for she doesn't aim at domination) which come forth when she is tainted by darkness and when she finds herself in serious peril, without turning her in a gruesome incubus. The mild solution which may be the just one for the case.
IN FAVOUR
1. Walküre
2. Fredius
3. DrHouse93
4. The_Necromancer0
5. Julio229
6. Garlodur
7. LordDainIronfoot
8. CragLord
9. dkbluewizard
10. Amandil7
11. lordoflinks
12. Dain@
13. OakenShield224
14. Slawek56703
15. Gandalf7000
16. Eomer der Verbannte
17. AmosVogel
18. lahe95
19. Astapor
20. FilipGeorg95
21. AulëTheSmith
22. NoldorSithLordsShipwrigh t
23. The_Nazgul
24. Fürst der Nazgûl
25. Tauriel?
26. GrisoN (ModDB)
27. REAPER357
28. n1ck_liv (Discord)
This thread is about all three forms of Galadriel. :)
Normal form of Galadriel has following abilities:
--- Zitat ---- Level 1: Glance of the White Lady - The glance of the White Lady will cause fear at all enemy units in the target area.
- Level 3: Glance in the Mirror - A hero is granted a glance into the mirror. One of three effects will be activated for 90 seconds.
Wisdom (golden insignia): The hero has seen what the future holds for him and made plans to react to it. His skills recover 70% faster.
Strength(green insignia): The hero faces the perils of the future determinedly. He gets doubled armor and doubled attack.
Despair (red insignia): The hero despairs of the burden of his knowledge. He is 30% slower and has -50% armor and attack
- Level 5: Vision in the mirror - Glance into Galadriel's Mirror to see distant places. Clears the fog in designated area permanently.
- Level 7: Gifts of Lorien - Galadriel hands gifts from Lothlorien to a hero.
Thranduil: Gets +15% armor and commands two rows of Palace Guards with his 'Shield-Wall'-Skill.
Legolas: Gets Galadriel's bow which enhances his 'Hawk Strike' and 'Arrow Wind' effectively.
Tauriel: Is permanently capable of wielding her daggers and being protected by guards.
Haldir: Gets a white arrow instead of his golden arrow which will stun all units in wide radius.
Celeborn: Gets a royal armor that improves his defense and attack by +10%.
Rumil & Orophin: Get mighty elven armor that highly enhance their defense but lowers their speed.
Frodo: Gets Earendil's Light which is a light to him in darkest hours.
Sam: Gets the seeds of the golden wood.
- Level 10: Nenya's Protection - The magic of the Elven Ring Nenya infuses the units of Lorien with temporal invincibility. All units in a wide radius are affected.
--- Ende Zitat ---
http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/news/the-road-to-edain-40-lothlorien-part-2
... and her role is Hero/Unit supporter and building destroyer. It seems that she is more or less finished, because her concept of normal Galadriel was already presented, but as many users noticed, her abilities are not so effective or conceptual for such expensive hero and main hero for faction, who is ring hero as well. So she is quite important there. xD
We can say that there are problematic three skills:
* Glance in the mirror - there is negative effect for friendly hero and in that case she would be only one hero with such negative effect (except Dwarven greed).
* Gifts of Lorien - they are not so crucial as a Sauron's influence or so effective as Balin's runes in order to be at level 7. Just remind that Sauron's influence is at level three and Balin's runes at level one. So it's quite logical comparison. There is also game play perspective - in reality gift only receive maximally two or three heroes in normal game and then is skill completely useless. I think that level three fits perfectly for them.
* Vision in the mirror - very useful ability (yes, only for multiplayer not against AI) which should be available later like Cirdan's ultimate skill. Because firstly we should give some space for scout heroes. Also if Gifts of Lorien will be earlier - you can firstly use scouts and give them armour through gifts and their role will be gone, but Galadriel can fulfill such role later through skill at level 7. So it's reason why I moved it at higher level.
My new proposal for normal form of Galadriel:
- Level 1: Glance of the White Lady - The glance of the White Lady will cause fear at all enemy units in the target area.
- Level 3: Gifts of Lorien - Galadriel hands gifts from Lothlorien to a hero.
Thranduil: Gets +15% armor and commands two rows of Palace Guards with his 'Shield-Wall'-Skill.
Legolas: Gets Galadriel's bow which enhances his 'Hawk Strike' and 'Arrow Wind' effectively.
Tauriel: Is permanently capable of wielding her daggers and being protected by guards.
Haldir: Gets a white arrow instead of his golden arrow which will stun all units in wide radius.
Celeborn: Gets a royal armor that improves his defense and attack by +10%.
Rumil & Orophin: Get mighty elven armor that highly enhance their defense but lowers their speed.
Frodo: Gets Earendil's Light which is a light to him in darkest hours.
Sam: Gets the seeds of the golden wood.
- Level 5: Strength of mind - Galadriel can explore minds of others.
Effect for friendly hero: Galadriel opens mind of friendly hero and convinces him to continue in journey. His skills recover 70% faster and he is 30 % faster for 90 seconds.
Effect for enemy hero: Galadriel is capable to confuse mind of enemy hero. His skills recover 70% slower and he is 30 % slower for 90 seconds.
- Level 7: Vision in the mirror - Glance into Galadriel's Mirror to see distant places. Clears the fog in designated area permanently.
- Level 10: Nenya's Protection - The magic of the Elven Ring Nenya infuses the realm of Lorien with temporal invulnerability.
I've only "regrouped" some abilities and reworked "Glance in the mirror" - why two mirror references? I think that "Vision in the mirror" is completely sufficient reference for that magical artifact.
We completely forgot that Galadriel is very skilful telepath and she can mentally communicate and even use such skill against enemy.
We have many references in the books:
--- Zitat ---I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!'
--- Ende Zitat ---
--- Zitat ---A black cloud lies often over it of late. In this high place you may see the two powers that are opposed one to another; and ever they strive now in thought, but whereas the light perceives the very heart of the darkness, its own secret has not been discovered. Not yet.' He turned and climbed swiftly down, and they followed him.
--- Ende Zitat ---
--- Zitat ---'Yes,' she said, divining his thought, 'it is not permitted to speak of it, and Elrond could not do so. But it cannot be hidden from the Ring-bearer, and one who has seen the Eye.
--- Ende Zitat ---
--- Zitat ---But I cannot see him from afar, unless he comes within the fences of Lothlorien: a grey mist is about him, and the ways of his feet and of his mind are hidden from me.'
--- Ende Zitat ---
--- Zitat ---And with that word she held them with her eyes, and in silence looked searchingly at each of them in turn. None save Legolas and Aragorn could long endure her glance. Sam quickly blushed and hung his head.
--- Ende Zitat ---
and movie makers went even further:
Galadriel reaches Frodo's Mind when he enters the Golden Wood (0:45)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOvoGqraKY
Galadriel sees through Boromir's Mind and tries to encourage him (2:25)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdD6Cte8HrU
Galadriel appears in Frodo's Mind and encourages him (0:45)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UvEVr1MYkg
Galadriel telepathically speaks with Gandalf (2:25)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7Eidvq4Frk
Thanks to user DieWalkure for finding these videos and thanks to Tienety for some ideas concerning gameplay perspective. :P
Concerning Galadriel blessed and dark lady I have certain proposal of concept (based on the lore and previous version). I think that all her forms should correspond in some way. Proposal is very simple - abilities are without a complex description.
Galadriel blessed
- Level 1: Blessed aura - Friendly nearby units are resistant to fear and permanently slowly healed. Blessed lady has 50 % immunity against magic and nearby units have 25 % immunity against magic.
- Level 3: Gifts of Lorien - Galadriel hands gifts from Lothlorien to a hero.
- Level 5: Light of Eärendil (or Memories of Laurelin and Telperion) - Enemies are paralyzes, trolls turned to stone and light deals damage to enemy hero.
- Level 7: Vision in the mirror - Hidden areas are permanently uncovered.
- Level 10: Nenya's might - The magic of the Elven Ring Nenya infuses the realm of Lorien with longer invulnerability.
Dark queen
- Level 1: Dark aura - All nearby units lose - 25 % armor and attack and they are frightened of Dark lady. Lorien structures surrounds dark aura and Dark queen has 50 % immunity against magic.
- Level 3: Face of Dark lady - Beats enemies to flight from her.
- Level 5: Foundations of the earth - Earthquake.
- Level 7: Mistress of the storms - Tornado.
-Level 10: Power of the One Ring - Explosion of power in large area.
General comments:
Dark lady is completely the same like in the previous version (with small upgrade for level one of course). Ea some time ago said that they are satisfied with her and problem was only with her blessed form. Also her negative effect has to be included in her and not in the sub factions, because I think that it is not possible to loose whole Mirkwood or ents as only way how to siege (except of her).
Concerning Galadriel blessed - her abilities are more or less the same as well. For instance "Light of Eärendil" is renamed "Memories of Laurelin and Telperion" and level ten is the same too. Skills on level three and seven correspond also with normal Galadriel, but there should be better (faster) cooldown in comparison with normal form. I think that would be pitty if "upgraded blessed Galadriel" will lose skills which are important for the whole faction.
As we know - she will have two automatic primary attacks.
* Primary attack against buildings - the whirl which damages enemy structures. I think that for all forms she should have role of building destroyer, it means that all her forms should be able to attack against structures so the attack should be the same. After all - differences are in the skills.
* Primary attack against normal units/heroes/machines - if she will have whirlwind against structures, I always thought that her both attacks should also correspond and in that case Alatar west wind (whirl with light + knockback efect) fits perfectly for her. Just check Alatar's first AOE attack in the video (0:42):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkw-vblOjJo
Why Alatar's first attack? Because if he will be only in the spellbook for some time, his concept with three winds and five skills is completely useless, so he doesn't need three different attacks for spellbook purpose.
So her roles in Lorien faction will be following:
* Normal Galadriel - Hero/unit supporter and building destroyer
* Galadriel blessed - Hero/unit supporter and building destroyer + two heroes (Frodo and Sam) are available
* Dark lady - Mass slayer and building destroyer
It means that she will be effective against structures and she will be great support on the battlefield (and dark queen will be great mass killer of normal units), but she will be extremely weak against all enemy heroes or monsters.
Well, I hope that we will have interesting debate about true hero from Dol Guldur, about Lady of light. xD
Edited by Walküre™
All trademarks belong to the immaculate and eternal potency of the Valkyrie 8-)
Walküre:
Really nice and accurate analysis :)
Some time ago I thought about a passive ability that normal Galadriel could have, at level 3 or 5, an interesting and innovative skill; but, since it's quite unlikely that the Edain Team will implement it for her normal concept, I think it could be somehow integrated with your proposal's power 'Blessed Aura' of blessed Galadriel :)
This skill/power is basically the opposite concept of the great power of Khamûl 'Khamûl's presence'; his Magic affects enemy structures and gradually corrodes them.
So, basing on my idea, if Galadriel is closed to your own structures, her Magic will make them 5-10% more resistant (and immune to negative spells and other heroes' powers) and slowly repair them if they are damaged.
Gandalf The Gray:
good stuf
Tienety:
I like these ideas. 8-)
TiberiusOgden:
--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 14. Jul 2015, 17:00 ---This skill/power is basically the opposite concept of the great power of Khamûl 'Khamûl's presence'; his Magic affects enemy structures and gradually corrodes them.
--- Ende Zitat ---
We have the same thoughts. xD
I've tried to implement such skill to Dark lady first, because as she said
--- Zitat ---Stronger than the foundations of the Earth!
--- Ende Zitat ---
so logically structures (walls and buildings) aren't for her any problem, her presence is generally terrible. So Khamul effect would be for allied and enemy structures, but logically it would be only copy of his unique ability. And dark lady should correspond to Galadriel blessed and for her it would be quite OP, just imagine - Lorien castle is circle and buildings are connected to main citadel, so if they are under attacks, blessed Galadriel can simply stay under trees and structures are repaired. :P
When I thought about her pasive ability, I considered what Lorien really needs? And answer for this question is "heal" (for units) - in comparison to previous version Lorien will have less number of heal spells, so reason was permanent heal for nearby units (and other bonuses) and for Dark lady logically some negative effects.
--- Zitat von: Gandalf The Gray am 14. Jul 2015, 17:11 ---good stuf
--- Ende Zitat ---
Thanks. :)
--- Zitat von: Tienety am 14. Jul 2015, 19:07 ---I like this idea. 8-)
--- Ende Zitat ---
Which one? So many ideas around, at least three. :P
Navigation
[0] Themen-Index
[#] Nächste Seite
Zur normalen Ansicht wechseln