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Autor Thema: Galadriel  (Gelesen 108251 mal)

CragLord

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #105 am: 25. Nov 2015, 03:23 »
Well, I understand your point of view Sir Stig, but you must also be aware of current situation in Lorien concerning Galadriel's role and roles distribution in general.
First, I think you can't use her as weapon for killing hundreds of enemies (maybe if she accepts ring), and mainly she is used as building destroyer, which fits in her possibilities  from lore, I think this is used from info that she cleansed Dol Guldur almost by herself. Other memebers of White Concil were as mini support, and concerning that statement of barefoot and unarmed I can say you have probably right, but what kind of new skin you will suggest for her, to have armor? Armored Skin? I am not so found of it no matter how it looks, simply in my mind she is fairy capable of defending herself without that armor. She has great power in domen of defensive magic so I think in this way. Maybe I am wrong but it is my opinion) And if you want to use her in proper way, you simply won't use her in offensive way as first front of battle, she will always be at back, behind soldiers, doing her magic. So in my opinion she isn't offensive at all against units (I am refering about normal form in general).
I agree that she should be ruler and protector, but because of distribution of  roles in current situation I understand team decision to make her as she is in this situation, and I really don't have something great to complain about it.
She has all support abilities (almost except fear based one) in blessed and normal form, so I really don't see some big problem there with her offensive nature.
Her leveling system, no exp from killing enemies sounds reasonable, but I don't have problem with this also. After all no matter how fairy she looks, she is Ñoldor princess capable for doing scary things. :)
When I took everything into consideration, I think current implementation of Galadriel present nice balance between lore and game needs. And because of that I am not for any change. :)

Kind regards,
CragLord

« Letzte Änderung: 25. Nov 2015, 20:20 von CragLord »

Sir_Stig

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #106 am: 25. Nov 2015, 19:44 »
My main problem is that she levels by killing things, I just want a way for her to level without having to kill things. By the time you build her and get her to level 7 the game is basically over.

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #107 am: 30. Nov 2015, 16:40 »

The gameplay-related points I remarked in my previous comments exactly explain why it wouldn't be wise 'relegating' and binding Galadriel to a so strict supportive role, inevitably colliding with her status as the most powerful hero of the faction.
Her attack is meant to represent a widespread spell that obviously involves more than one unit; being it a very particular and unique type of attack among the other Elven Heroes, I really think that it's instead very suitable for her.

If you are a bit concerned about Galadriel picking open fights like a 'regular offensive' hero, then you should consider that this issue was solved in the Edain Mod 4.0, as in the 3.8.1 version she indeed seemed a bit out of place with her problematic role as a sort of tank (attacking directly) with mainly supportive abilities.

So, a less offensive role wouldn't have so much sense, as Galadriel already is a mainly supportive hero.
Some of your suggestions (like the magical shield) could bring things to the extreme side, like a very strict and imperative defensive role (that Galadriel doesn't need at all).

And, now, the cherry on top of the cake.
Those statements about Galadriel's role in the War of the Ring and her act towards Dol Guldur have really been a direct wound to me  [ugly]

Galadriel was anything but 'passive' during the War of the Ring.
In the books you will find many passages that clearly state that without her personal presence and powers Lothlórien would have ineluctably fallen either by the Enemy or the Time.
Tolkien specifically tells us that it was due to the power of Nenya (therefore Galadriel) that the three assaults against Lórien were repulsed, although the Galadhrim indeed fought bravely for their land.
You should always consider that the 'general mechanics' (War, defence, ruling, power) of enchanted kingdoms as Lothlórien are definitely different from the common (mainly human) kingdoms', since they greatly differ in Nature.

A similar thing can be applied also for her actions in Dol Guldur, not only significant for the War, but also symbolic as they resembled what Lúthien did in the First Age with another fortress of Sauron.
Galadriel should indeed be pictured walking barefoot and 'unarmed' while she storms that place with many possible varieties of destructive powers like shockwaves, dreadful weather-related phenomena, gates and walls crumbling at her presence or a mix of all these things, easily justified by what we know about this more-than-8000-year-old Noldorin Princess from Immortal Lands.

And, remember, Dol Guldur is an enchanted place, permeated by the dark power of Sauron.
Magic can most of the times be effectively countered only by Magic as well  8-)
This is a recurrent theme in the Tolkien's writings.


Saruman_the_wise

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Gaze of Galadriel in Good ring hero form
« Antwort #108 am: 13. Dez 2015, 03:26 »
Hello all I've always felt it strange that one of the greatest scouting abilities in game is taken away from Galadriel upon her rejecting the ring if anything it should improve the ability (which is not what i'm asking sort of) I know you want to keep it to no duo command sets which I find is much better as well but why not when she rejects the one ring galadriels fear ability "Gaze of Galadriel" and "Far sight or power of the seer" be combined and called "Gaze of the Elf Queen" or some thing there by improving the two abilities by making the fear stun cast-able across the entire map and retaining the very useful permanent far sight while giving it a little "kick" otherwise rejecting the ring especially early game is a double edged sword some thing which it should not be since that's the main idea about accepting the ring for all good heroes ( except Gandalf the white but he's a maiar so big difference)

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Gaze of Galadriel in Good ring hero form
« Antwort #109 am: 13. Dez 2015, 04:59 »
I agree with this but i think that they should instead combine the effect so the player has either the choice to reveal a new location or scare enemy units in a already known location
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Re: Gaze of Galadriel in Good ring hero form
« Antwort #110 am: 13. Dez 2015, 14:00 »
So, if I understood well, an extensive power that combines the previous Foresight and Fear one in a unique ability?

It honestly sounds like an interesting idea, and very suitable and legitimate for Blessed Galadriel.
Also because, technically, her role as a Hero Supporter/Building Destroyer doesn't change much if she rejects the One Ring, if not being expanded to units as well with her holy aura.

P.S. I will merge this thread with the main Galadriel one, as I don't see any reason why the discussion should be fragmented  :)


Saruman_the_wise

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #111 am: 13. Dez 2015, 16:20 »
that's all right I didn't really know where to put was just afraid it might get lost here and i'm glad you like the idea ! I only hope ET does as well

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #112 am: 3. Feb 2016, 19:04 »
The post is a bit old but it relates to any Galadriel-suggestion thing so I'll take a risk and bump it. This is something that struck me during a friendly game. Once blessed Galadriel gains the  Memories of Laurelin and Telperion and retains the glare of Galadriel. The thing is that these abilities are very similar the only difference is that while the  Memories of Laurelin and Telperion stuns the enemy troops the Glare makes them flee in terror. I was just thinking that they could be merged keeping either of the two effects and then reintroducing Power of the Seer with maybe an increased range. This would I think allow one of the greatest scouting/spying abilities to be possible to keep throughout the whole game.
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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #113 am: 6. Feb 2016, 11:52 »
The post is a bit old but it relates to any Galadriel-suggestion thing so I'll take a risk and bump it. This is something that struck me during a friendly game. Once blessed Galadriel gains the  Memories of Laurelin and Telperion and retains the glare of Galadriel. The thing is that these abilities are very similar the only difference is that while the  Memories of Laurelin and Telperion stuns the enemy troops the Glare makes them flee in terror. I was just thinking that they could be merged keeping either of the two effects and then reintroducing Power of the Seer with maybe an increased range. This would I think allow one of the greatest scouting/spying abilities to be possible to keep throughout the whole game.


Don't worry, I think that this thread could be rightly and legitimately regarded as the 'supreme thread' for anything referred to Galadriel.
Therefore, you are more than welcome  :)

Yes, those two powers could be easily merged without any type of radical change in the conceptual field of her character.
And, it's true again that the Power of the Seer ability would still fit her blessed form anyway, being the telepathic/foresight powers of Galadriel a sort of constant trait of hers among her deeds in the War of the Ring; even though one could argue that achieving control of a Ring Hero is something that often happens in the late game, when the player has theoretically had all the time to expand its sight via the above-mentioned powers.

Besides, I personally think that Blessed Galadriel still misses something, and that she's not conceptually 'completed' yet.
So, we might gather further ideas about this matter, if you want, in order to find a more suitable equilibrium and conceptual harmony regarding her character  ;)

VectorMaximus

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #114 am: 8. Feb 2016, 16:00 »
I personally agree that Gaze of Galadriel should be replaced or merged by/with Power of the Seer for 'Blessed Galadriel". It doesn't counteract any precedent or lore set for her, and on a simply gameplay note, I find Power of the Seer far more useful then Gaze, particularly since its Lorien's only scouting ability.
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Hamanathnath

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #115 am: 8. Feb 2016, 16:40 »
I really like Vector's idea of Blessed Galadriel having Gaze of Galadriel merged with Power of the Seer.  Having units cower in fear for about 5 seconds would make it seem like they are afraid of Galadriel, similar to how Frodo slows down when Galadriel is telepathically talking to him when he enters Lothlorien in the Movies.  And Frodo is very courageous, so it would have a stronger effect on normal soldiers. 

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #116 am: 12. Feb 2016, 13:18 »
Albeit what I previously suggested, I think that Gaze of Galadriel and Power of the Seer couldn't be exactly merged, as they are about too different powers/aspects (immobilising units and foresight on the other side).
Also, that foresight ability is not currently available for Blessed Galadriel, as we were discussing about; so, I would stress the importance of letting her gain back this previous ability, given that her role doesn't change so much if she rejects the One Ring (if not more effective supporting abilities), thus still relying on ranged characteristics.

Therefore, as I wrote above in response to the Necromancer, it would rather seem more reasonable merging the Gaze of Galadriel spell with Memory of Laurelin and Telperion in my opinion, letting the latter replace naturally the former, being of a mightier status and impact (her gaze 'just' immobilises units, while the remembrance of the Two Trees blocks them as well as heavily wounding heroes and turning trolls into stone).

Bogdan Hmel

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #117 am: 20. Apr 2016, 14:05 »
A small suggestion for Galadriel. I propose to make available the ability to "Glance in the mirror" on the fourth level.
I think that the seventh level is too much for the skill that operates randomly. In my last game I got three consecutive red sign.
This skill is used on the heroes, but the seventh level of Galadriel's possible to get closer to the late game. In the late game heroes do not play a decisive role.
Moreover, the hero, whose cost is 3000, may have earlier access to their abilities. Her abilities opens on 1, 3, 5, 7 and 10 levels, too boring and standard))
Sorry for my english)

Odysseus

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #118 am: 20. Apr 2016, 14:30 »
How about we remove the RNG from Galadriel altogether by removing the annoying and pointless red mirror effect?

That is much simpler and it would solve the only issue with Galadriel that I see.
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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #119 am: 20. Apr 2016, 15:03 »
The Glance in the Mirror ability is a very lore accurate aspect, referred to the Lady of Light's known foreseeing powers; as she says, the Mirror can show many things, and it's up to the single person to understand the inner meaning of what is shown (finding relief with Hope) or to be discouraged by the possible events that might happen (feeling Despair).

Nevertheless, returning to gameplay matters, I agree with the main reasons of your considerations. I honestly never liked this ability, mainly because I feel that Gifts of Lórien already defines Galadriel's Hero Supporter nature so well; and, as you two pointed out as well, it's pretty unacceptable that the leader of the whole faction might cause negative effects with a level 7 power. Thus, I'm too in favour of the removal of this disturbing implication and of a total 'positive conversion' of Glance in the Mirror. This is probably the only weakness in Galadriel's current hero mechanics.