[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Lothlorien Suggestions

Galadriel

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Garlodur:
Great work Walk! This proposal has certainly seen some amazing development.
I have some doubts about the availibility of this Seaweed Galadriel, however.

I am not sure whether a timer can be given to the stance system. I wanted to suggest instead an alternative for the place of this different version of Galadriel. What about replacing the Glare of Galadriel that scares enemy units in the target area? This ability spot would be taken over by Ambition of Ancient Times that opens a new Palantír with a timer like the ones Ghan-Buri Ghan and Grishnak have in the summon powers from Rohan and Isengard respectively.
Consequently I have a slight balance issue I want to bring up. If the ability Ambition of Ancient Times is only available when Galadriel's health is under 40%, won't she still be too vulnerable to heroes and monsters even with increased armour against them and their reduced damage? I might work out as a calculation but in-game it might not be sufficient to deal with certain abilities of enemy units or heroes that still deal high damage to single targets (Aragorn's Blade of the West, Beorning's anti-armour ability, etc.). My question would be whether she should be able to deal with these hero-killing abilities or only with a lower concentration of heroes and monsters until she reacher her level 10 to get rid of higher amounts of enemies.

I want to reiterate my earlier suggestion of adding a penalty to using the abilities You have no power! and Banishment into the Void in the form of a decrease of health points. The reason for this is that it would urge the player to almost sacrifice Galadriel in order to save herself (and whoever she is supporting with that ability). In the movie she is terribly weakened after contending Sauron, and I believe this should be reflected in-game as the great price she has to pay for doing so.

Lastly I wondered whether the abilities You have no power! and Banishment into the Void will share their cooldown with the current abilities corresponding to Galadriel level 7 (Glance in the Mirror, I believe) and level 10 (the Ring Nenya). It might be too much of a cooldown-inception, so it should probably reflected in the cooldown of the Ambition of Ancient Times ability.

As always I hope this contributes to the development of Galadriel into the magnificent Elven Queen of old. Now I wonder when Elrond is up for discussion. :)

Walküre:
Hi Garlodur! It's always great and really interesting to read your precious contributions to this topic. Yes, I too am very much hopeful that we are finally getting very close to a defined ultimate concept. Nevertheless, I will continue to try to gather more voices here from the forum, given that I'm eager to know other people's thoughts on Ambitions from Ancient Times. Obviously, regarding the very name of the feature, anyone is more than free to propose other titles that might be deemed more suitable for the context. I would personally see Fiery Heart as very proper as well: it effectively refers to the pride of the Lady of Light and her resolution, since the first time she stood up in the Noldor's council in Tirion and campaigned for the exile in Middle-earth.

Now my response to your remark. I must have certainly done an inaccurate thing when I called this proposal a stance system. What I suggested is in fact a feature (temporary) that allows to open a new Palantír (and changes Galadriel's appearance), with the abilities shown in the presentation of the concept. As you rightly pointed out, it works differently from the usual stance system, but I addressed to it that way because it really reminds me of something very similar to different stances; in this case, the momentary option to turn her supportive design into a more aggressive/disruptive one (displaying this twist also with her marred/tainted look as Seaweed Galadriel). The feature nonetheless works as I explained in the main previous comment of mine, and it thus replaces the normal stances and not the Gaze ability. This was more a matter of terminology; I apologise, if it created confusion  :)

The heart of this proposal is giving Galadriel some chances to resist the assaults of heroes and monsters, while interfering with their actions. Interference is exactly the element at the centre of all. Said that, we aren't talking about hero-killer properties at all; I made it clear that she is always supposed to be escorted by other troops and heroes, and that Ambitions from Ancient Times/Fiery Heart serves her well in very dangerous situations of emergency. No way will she ever be capable of challenging heroes directly or of even taking them down; she won't be able to attack while this form is activated, and that one is the role of Celeborn.


--- Zitat von: Garlodur am 19. Aug 2016, 15:44 ---My question would be whether she should be able to deal with these hero-killing abilities or only with a lower concentration of heroes and monsters until she reaches her level 10 to get rid of higher amounts of enemies.

--- Ende Zitat ---

The latter of the two, keeping in mind that 'dealing with' means having the concrete opportunity to survive against them and to disrupt their plans  ;)

Honestly, I'm not for a reduction of her health. I sincerely believe that the whole weakness motive, an absolutely fundamental factor, is already well displayed by the current effects; that is, unlocking the ability at 40% of health, the fact that she can't attack neither units nor structures and her movements slowed down. Additional negative effects would affect her too much, without any clear reason (making this option definitely unfavourable, rather than naturally risky). The cool-down of the feature shall necessarily be moderate, along with a reasonably brief duration, so that the player is not to use You Have no Power! and Banishment into the Void twice in a row.

The_Necromancer0:
This is a lot to take in but I've had several read throughs so I'll try to do my best to answer back.

The initial ability Ambitions from Ancient Times seems well balanced with the negative effects it brings to her. So that's a good point although I might have an issue with the fact that the ability could be use to save Galadriel in many situations.

Most abilities sound good and seem balanced. Banishment into the Void feels very strong, this reset of all the abilities of all nearby heroes is very powerful. I would suggest some counter effect to balance it a bit such as forcing Galadriel back into her normal form. I also think it should only temporarily stun enemy heroes instead of making them flee.

Apart from that good work on the proposal, it's solid and you guys have poured a lot of effort into making it simple, well done! The sounds are also very good and definitely usable.

I really don't have much to say, the proposal looks solid and apart from tweaking the numbers a bit and wrapping up the visuals. Good luck on your project although I doubt you'll need it seeing the work already accomplished.  :)

Walküre:
Many thanks, Necro, for joining the debate around this proposal. As I stated in the following comments after that main presentation, this feature won't make Galadriel a new hero-killer, nor does it intend to grant her certain safety from all perils (as she's always supposed to be escorted by someone else, be it troops or other heroes). It's instead a valuable addition to her defence against a selected type of tough opponents, and very much consistent with her characterisation in the lore (she has not been tested yet and her ancient desires of might), with the darker Hobbit atmosphere (although with severe restrictions and based on the premise that this Hobbit motive will remain absolutely secondary, compared to her basic LOTR concept) and with the status of this heroine in her faction (her cost as well).

I would like the terror property of Banishment into the Void to remain, as it is a central element in the banishment scene. I like very much the other suggestion of yours though: forcing her to return back to her normal form after she uses the ability would even things up even more, and it's well loyal to the very scene of BOTFA too. I will thus edit the post and add the adjustment you proposed  :)

Speaking about graphics and animations, I would dare to say that there shouldn't be big problematical issues concerning these fields. A complete model of Galadriel already exists, and it will then mainly be a matter of graphical changes to make her resemble the non-CGI Seaweed Galadriel and the FX surrounding her. The first two abilities don't need an animation at all and for the third one there is Frodo's phial animation (which would be very fitting for her equally). Her slowed down movements could imitate the pace of common peasants. Besides, thank you again for your precious contribution  ;)

Julio229:
I must say, this is an amazing proposal! The amount of work you have put into this is simply astounding, and it just fits perfectly with Galadriel's character! I'm totally for this proposal to be included in the mod!

I like the abilities and their images a lot, and it is really fitting for the most powerful Elf of the Third Age that she is capable of unleashing that power when it is needed, when she has low health, it is just so unique! The temporary form replacing the stance is great, and I believe more heroes should have a unique system instead of regular stances to further help their characterization, because Sauron is amazing and this Galadriel would be just perfect, they both embody the character they are perfectly!

I'm just amazed by the work this proposal must have needed, so I am for this suggestion to be included!

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