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Autor Thema: Galadriel  (Gelesen 107810 mal)

AmosVogel

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #165 am: 12. Jan 2017, 21:32 »
Agree

Sorry, maybe i didnt read everything, but once she is drained of power, will she get a timer or a cooldown until use her abilities again?
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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #166 am: 12. Jan 2017, 22:07 »
Agree

Sorry, maybe i didnt read everything, but once she is drained of power, will she get a timer or a cooldown until use her abilities again?

The Ancient Might feature will have a timer after it's used. As for what happens when she returns to her normal form: yes, it would be wise if she couldn't immediately use her normal abilities. It would be quite contradictory, were Galadriel to use something like Nenya after using Banishment into the Void. Thank you for raising this issue.

Regarding the model and appearance of Galadriel during the said feature, I thought about the simplest solution, even though I'm really fond of the concept from BOTFA. Since the form I proposed is supposed to be a sort of in-between form (between her normal concept and the Dark Queen), I think we should opt for something that exactly merges those two forms together. The common model of Galadriel, surrounded by the blue aura of the Dark Queen, as in the evil campaign of BFME2 (as it's shown in the video). That resembles quite well the initial intentions of WETA.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sREoghvixb0

AmosVogel

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #167 am: 12. Jan 2017, 23:55 »
Nice!

And about the concept yeah, that fits great, somehow i've imagined her:

http://img05.deviantart.net/32c1/i/2014/350/1/a/wrath_of_galadriel_by_zyrexthez-d8a1boy.jpg

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #168 am: 13. Jan 2017, 00:05 »
Correct. I know that picture too. The graphical appearance shown in the video permits us to have a really 'in-between Galadriel', without the need to create another new model just for this proposal  ;)

lahe95

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #169 am: 14. Jan 2017, 15:10 »
I really love the concept here about The Ancient Might!
Brilliant job and nicely done. :)

Agree

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #170 am: 14. Jan 2017, 15:22 »
I really love the concept here about The Ancient Might!
Brilliant job and nicely done. :)

Agree

And I appreciate your supportive words. I will add your name in the list of whom is in favour of this proposal  :)

The Witch-King of Angmar

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #171 am: 27. Jan 2017, 21:32 »
I see Galadril as a very strong support to lorien's army on the battle field, she is insanly useful and the only way to slay here is by an ambush of heroes or elite unites/monsters and here where your suggestion comes in, if everytime her health gets 40% she will turn into this terrifying form, which basicaly gives her an entire new roster of abilities to counter heroes and heavy unites then i feel she is extreamly broken right now, lets check this out, her new level 1 passive:
 
Zitat
All heroes and monsters in her vicinity gets -15% on attack and speed. Galadriel's armour against them is increased by 30%.
wow this is super useful, it will buy time for reinforcment to come and killing her will be harder, and if things got out of hand, no problem! here level 7 ability gets in:
Zitat
Once it's used on a single hero, the enemy hero deals no damage for a brief amount of time (and, if its ordinary attack contemplates this, it doesn't knock back either until the effect is over)
and her new level 10 ability is super broken
Zitat
level 10: All enemy heroes, monsters and units in a radius will flee in terror, their abilities will be reset and the nearest units are knocked back by the shockwave of the very power.
"thier abilites will be reset" oh my god this is so broken man,I know this will force here to switch back to her original roster but that is a very small price to pay, like seriously galadril and witchking both cost 3000 but wk resets the abilities of only 1 hero and he has only 1 roster of abilites not 2, while Galadril will have 2 rosters the first one is allready  very good and the second one will counter what suppose to be her weakness reset all thier abilites?!! wow i am still amazed xD, she can easily counter and escape heroes right now,and btw since when do heroes flee in terror? i have never seen that in Edain, they didnt add that ability even to Sauron with his one ring, i think it will be super ironic to see heroes like Smaug, Sauron, Balrog fleeing in terror from her, i know she is very strong, but i feel this ability is out of place, and if we look at the hobbit movie, Sauron didnt "flee in terror" from here, he got pushed as in great wave sent him to Mordor, so i think here ability should be something like gandalf's word of power.

I know this suggestion will make Galadril more interesting and fun to use and nice way to add her power from the hobbit movies, and I like how it will feel like a good counter part of sauron for the good side, since both will have 2 rosters of abilities and in the second form both of them cant use their normal attack  but i see galadril balanced as she is now and adding this new form will make her broken and super hard to counter.

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #172 am: 27. Jan 2017, 23:48 »
Many thanks for having shared your opinions, Witch-king. I will immediately address the points you raised, without losing myself in other types of explanations. I don't agree with most of your considerations, as, in my opinion, they lack some aspects that you didn't take into account or because you're considering just one side of the coin.

First of all, as you too recognised yourself, her greatest weakness at the moment are exactly heroes and monsters (I won't include elite units, since the feature is not mainly directed to them, and this fact alone already shows how this system is not broken at all). Against them, Galadriel is more or less harmless, unless one relies on defensive strategies that imply the intervention of other units; therefore, if we exclude the latter case, she is simply not capable of countering such typologies of units. Your initial statement seems thus to contradict the last consideration of yours, which you came up with at the end of the post.

Surely, Galadriel's main characterisation is exactly the one of a supporter, endowed with pervasive and wide-radius/long-range abilities. This is a paramount property of hers that Ancient Might will in fact not alter nor replace. This is something I always made sure to clarify, in case someone had been legitimately concerned about her role. When she enters this new and temporary form, her abilities will be turned into interfering powers and her nature will therefore mutate accordingly, albeit being bound by severe limitations. In regards of those boundaries, in no way is she to become anything close to a hero-killer: her long-range and supportive magic is transformed into long-range interfering magic, yet she also necessarily loses her supportive abilities for a given amount of time and her long-range attack (what also makes her so much useful from afar) is deactivated. Add to this her slowed-down movements. Of course, as you wrote yourself, the first two abilities are very useful against heroes and monsters, alongside increasing her chances to withstand that sort of assaults. But that's exactly the point of those abilities in the first place, while we forget for a moment about her supportive properties. There wouldn't be much point in conceiving abilities that don't match with a certain purpose  xD

Regarding Banishment into the Void, I don't find it broken at all. The comparison with the Witch-king is really flawed and incorrect, in my point of view. The ability you referred to (Soul Disturbance) is available at level 7, and you should also consider that, once he uses that ability, the Witch-king is well free to strike heroes or units with other abilities and with his quite powerful attack (a wide space of manoeuvre and action). This is not the case of Galadriel, given the fact that all her normal powers will be reset, once returned to normality, that she can't count on Eerie Aura anymore and that her normal supportive form will make it very unlikely to exterminate the heroes on whom she casts her confining spell. I probably forgot to mention that she eventually ends up being drained by her last ability; if I didn't insert this aspect, I apologise (I will edit the main presentation post). Furthermore, I don't think Sauron flees 'just' due to the shock wave of Galadriel's might; that's a too simplistic of an explanation: the Light captured in the phial (a remnant of the lost Two Trees of Valinor) is too much disruptive and repulsive for Sauron to bear its presence, as it happens for all foul creatures of any fashion that face the same fate. That's the point. Ok, if you don't like the idea of major heroes fleeing for being terrified as simple peasants, you may always view things this way: the Light of the phial repulses all enemies for a while, because of its holy nature.

Recreating a de facto replica of Word of Power would simply be very cheap and naïve. Uniqueness would be completely lost and that would certainly be a very broken proposal; something which would turn her in a mass-slayer, combined with the interfering effects of the first two powers. A total abomination  [ugly]

Nevertheless, if we set these significant issues aside, I'm very delighted that you deem the concept interesting, at least. The whole nemesis-like reasoning that deals with Sauron is exactly one of the strong points of the proposal. Bear in mind that, even if I don't intend to modify the concept (at this final phase), there is always the possibility that some elements might be ultimately changed or wholly replaced by the Edain Team; and we don't know yet how they feel about this proposal in general. I remit the final decision to their wise judgement, whatever the outcome may be. So, if you're not convinced by some values or aspects, I would personally advise you focus your attention on the foundations on which everything is based. Regardless of your choice, thank you again for your feedback (always valuable for the debate)  :)

dkbluewizard

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #173 am: 29. Jan 2017, 23:56 »
I don't see an official list yet, but I am for this proposal. I agree[/glow].
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #174 am: 30. Jan 2017, 08:34 »
I don't see an official list yet, but I am for this proposal. I agree.

I had already listed your name, when you firstly expressed in favour of this proposal (almost three months ago). The official list is in the main presentation post of the concept; you just have to browse the previous pages of this thread. Or, you can simply find the direct link in my forum signature (below any of my posts). Click on Galadriel and you will automatically be redirected to that post.

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #175 am: 3. Feb 2017, 03:02 »
I managed to find a definitely clearer and broader WETA concept-art of how Galadriel was initially to be portrayed in Dol Guldur.


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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #176 am: 22. Mär 2017, 00:34 »
I just found these great sketches/3D-animations from WETA, which I think were used for the official action-figures of the Hobbit trilogy. Galadriel is shown holding her phial as she casts the banishment spell on Sauron. It's clearly visible how these concepts do away with the whole grotesque outcome of the cinematographic version, so that it might be legitimate to infer that this kind of depiction may have been WETA's initial intentions. The moderate path Ancient Might tries exactly to stick to.


-DJANGO-

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #177 am: 4. Mai 2017, 20:07 »
First of all i'd like to say that i appreciate your effort you put into new cencept ideas a lot! Also i'd like to use the moment to thank you for your regular posts on lore related topics - especially Annals of Aman - of which this forum can't get enough!

Regarding your Galadriel concept i have some concerns though.
The lore accuracy of Seaweed-Galadriel may be open for something like this and the film design may be a matter of taste.

However i think, that all the 3000 Heros should be treated equally in sense of variety of abilities including having a second palantir. It doesnt matter that if its Galadriel or Gandalf...to me it feels like some heros would be treated more extensive than others.

Also im pleased with the general splitting of the two different galadriels with ring. Having a white looking default Galadriel is quite important to me, as she is definitely not tempted by power most of the time. Which leads me to the next point... The situations she will transform into this 'medium' appearance are afaik always connected to the ring or sauron, as the source of greater power lies there. So im really not convinced with this kind of implementation.
Some of the abilities and design language would therefore fit more to the Dark Queen Ring form. The Fx of the Dark Queen are already one of my favorites. But the abilities could definitely get an overhaul.

Balance wise this would also fit to the Dark Queen becoming more powerful herself as a hero (also vs other heros) whilst losing big aspects of her leadership.
Because on the balance side of things, i have also my problems with the concept: On top of her great mass slayer abilities she already has, she would be good against heros and at Lvl 10 get a "Word of Power" in combo with a stronger "WitchKing Power Reset". That is something i can not agree with.
Nevertheless i hope this honest feedback will not hold you back to come up with more conceptual ideas! Keep up the good work  ;)
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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #178 am: 4. Mai 2017, 22:28 »
First of all, it's really great of you to have given your precious feedback, DJANGO. I translated the concept in German, but I'm pleased by your coming to the English forum. I also appreciate immensely your praise to the Annals of Aman and the fact that it managed to interest you. Thank you very much  :)

I agree with you, in a sense, that all ultimate heroes (3000-resource heroes) should get an equal treatment, or something similar nonetheless. This was the exact ground for the development of the Narya (I redirected you to the German thread, so that you will also judge my mastering of the language) proposal, which returns the Ring of Fire to its legitimate owner and grants the wizard a very Edain-style stance system. Nevertheless, I'm conscious that a second Palantír might be deemed a bit excessive, yet, in defence of the concept, I shall say: Galadriel is a bit of an exception among all the ultimate heroes, as her abilities and role are mainly supportive and conceived to be ranged. Whereas, as you well know, Gandalf boasts the most powerful and dynamic set of abilities in the game, most of which are the iconic legacy of the old good days of BFME1, when everything was simpler and the Grey Wizard could exterminate armies with his sole magic  xD

As for the medium-nature argument, following in the footsteps of my conceptual considerations, this form is to explore Galadriel's descent in the obscurity of Dol Guldur and the mighty display of prowess she performed, in which the One Ring had no part (as it was in Bilbo's hands). In line with the original vision of WETA (before everything became too much grotesque), such portrayal would have shown the darkest sides of her character that did lie in the depth of her heart, until she was tested by Frodo 60 years after and eventually freed from the curse of the Noldor (renouncing her ambition). We do in fact have in the game a wholly untainted version of the heroine: Blessed Galadriel. The passage of the phial from her to Frodo would be a marvellous detail to insert in the Mod, given that it directly refers to Galadriel having resisted temptation. In my view, this in-between form just adds more to the character, enhances her magical skills and implements the whole atmosphere of the Dol Guldur sequence; with the obvious assurance that her normal characterisation will absolutely remain central (Ancient Might is temporary and is affected by defined limits).

The features I crafted are exactly fitting for Seaweed Galadriel, focusing on interfering properties and long-range influence. I imagine you would agree that the Dark Queen is a considerably different matter, because her concept relies on massive devastation and destruction; conceptually, the Dark Queen is nothing else but Galadriel after having accepted the One Ring, thus becoming a dreadful tyrant. Seaweed Galadriel was instead born from the eerie aspects of her might (a mixture of ancient ambitions and an incredible magical potential, which simple men could easily misjudge as supernatural/violent phenomena) and from the essentials of the banishment scene (where the One Ring is not to be found). Albeit that grotesque touch, Seaweed Galadriel was never evil, and she even held the sacred light of the phial against Sauron (how could the Dark Queen ever use the light of Eärendil?). Speaking about the actual graphical appearance, it's surely quite simplistic, but you have to consider that our solution was the only viable way, lest the Edain Team were put under more strain for graphics. Personally, I see the dark FX as the ghostly aura that Seaweed Galadriel emanates, mutating her (according to WETA's own words) in a kind of underwater spirit, and here you see how the water motive of Nenya is involved (and not the One Ring). Wir könnten diesen Aspekt Seegeist nennen. The German language offers a more precise definition of that  ;)

You can be perfectly sure that I shall endeavour a lot and again for this or other proposals!

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Re: Galadriel
« Antwort #179 am: 7. Mai 2017, 02:46 »
Balance wise this would also fit to the Dark Queen becoming more powerful herself as a hero (also vs other heros) whilst losing big aspects of her leadership.
Because on the balance side of things, i have also my problems with the concept: On top of her great mass slayer abilities she already has, she would be good against heros and at Lvl 10 get a "Word of Power" in combo with a stronger "WitchKing Power Reset".

Pardon me, but I simply forgot to address your balance-related points. If you read some of the previous replies of this discussion, you will see that I debated the issue with Melkor quite extensively. Besides, this is my general answer to the problematics you have mentioned.

As I said, I don't believe that such abilities would ever fit the Dark Queen, since we are talking about a context which is different both in strategy (long-range interference) and in concept (the Dol Guldur sequence). This could hardly be reconciled with the destructive nature of that form. Moreover, it should be borne in mind that the explosion of the banishment deals a little amount of damage and has a good deal smaller radius; anyway, should the issue consist of damage, I could simply do without it, knowing that the main properties of the ability (as a confining spell) reside in spreading terror and resetting other heroes' powers. Then, last but not least, a concluding remark from me: I endeavoured a lot to make sure that normal Galadriel and Seaweed Galadriel remained separated from each other, avoiding the risk of mingling the characteristics and purposes of their concepts. The feature is thus temporary, slows her down and Galadriel is denied her ordinary mass-slayer attack. I find the compromise enough satisfying, in my opinion.
« Letzte Änderung: 8. Mai 2017, 23:56 von DieWalküre »