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Umfrage

Should each Dwarven Realm get and Extra Siege Unit based on its strentgh!?

Yes,it wil be nice to have another Siege Unit and boost the Earth Shaker a little bit!
No,they are fine as they are!
No,but he Shaker should be removed to balance the numbers!

Autor Thema: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)  (Gelesen 19030 mal)

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #45 am: 7. Aug 2015, 15:26 »
Well said CragLord !I couldn't have said it better myself!I to want Shakera to be buffed a little not removing them and on that base we can add new.Units for other factions! :-)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Sir_Stig

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #46 am: 7. Aug 2015, 16:21 »
Earth shaker definitely is not fair and not conceptual as well. It's advantage for Erebor in comparison with Iron Hills and Ered Luin.
I really don't know if earth shaker is "usable" or which advantages has but I would remove it completely and add him as a final spell which causes earthquake.
And we will solve two issues/threads.

Best solution.

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #47 am: 7. Aug 2015, 16:43 »
So do we have some conclusions?
It seems that Earth shaker should stay but little bit stronger and more useful and in that case remaining Dwarven kingdoms need something new for siege, but it should be similar with function to earth shaker, otwherwise will be problem that some Dwarven kingdom will have better unit than the rest.


Best solution.
And conceptual and mainly very easy, but it seems that discussion opened the door to the new and maybe unique units, so hard to say. xD
« Letzte Änderung: 7. Aug 2015, 16:46 von TiberiusOgden »

CragLord

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #48 am: 7. Aug 2015, 16:48 »
No Sir Stig, it is not solution at all. That suggestion is way to end this disscusion early. :P
This disscussion is about adding new units in game, really don't know why people see problem in earth shakers. That unit is just motive for this idea and disscusion in general. We now need to concentrate on that new units, propose some abilities for them, usage of them and so on... Shakers stay, they just need some polishing...

Tiberius, do you mean in siege unit for building damage or siege "bonus" unit in general? Because main idea is to add siege units but not for purpose of making damage to buildings. 
« Letzte Änderung: 30. Sep 2015, 20:00 von CragLord »

TiberiusOgden

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #49 am: 7. Aug 2015, 17:00 »
Tiberius, do you mean in siege unit for building damage or siege "bonus" unit in general? Because main idea is to add siege units
In general - for instance Dwarven ballista is completely different kind of siege machine than earth shaker is.

CragLord

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #50 am: 7. Aug 2015, 17:35 »
Yes, in general all 3 unique sieqe units should be for different usage, ballista is better than shaker for monster slaying, but shaker does what he does, structure area damage, for third unit I still don't have idea. Any of them has it's main role. Can't compare them in general. Will be ballista better than shaker? Sure it will be more usefull for monster slaying but that is its role. Will be ballista more used in game that shaker? I don't know, that depends on player strategy, enemy strategy etc...I really don't know what more to say about "balance" problem. Main idea that still holds me in this disscussion/topic is that Dwarves like great engineers should have elite siege units, because of that I liked this topic from start. :)
« Letzte Änderung: 7. Aug 2015, 18:44 von CragLord »

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #51 am: 7. Aug 2015, 18:05 »
I agree with CragLord !Shakers will do they're stuff while the other to Kingdoms will get ne Units based on the Faction strengths!Likr Iron Hils as DMG faction will get Ballista strongh against Monster's and some light damage against Infantry but will be limited to 4-5 Max Units!As for Ered Luin I too can't think of something may be since their main stretgh(aside from the OP Heroes) is their tough Units and strong Armor  so may be a Unit whicj will protect its Soldiers near enemy walls from their towers and archers but not too big deffensr or it will be OP! :-)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

CragLord

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #52 am: 8. Aug 2015, 21:24 »
Ok, I got an idea about third unit, just I need some backup by design and look about unit. (LordDain's idea in general)
Ered Luin is faction with OP heroes and infantry with great armour, so maybe is not bad idea to add some siege shield as new unique siege unit. As LordDain said, this fits nicely in faction global properties.
So idea is that new "siege shield" will be support unit for catapults. So this unit should protects catapults from other siege attacks, and also against arrows/fire arrows. Health of this unit shouldn't be great. Enought hp to block damage of 2-3 shoots of other catapults (depends on type of attacking unit) and ensure survival of Ered Luin catapult. So this unit represent support siege unit. When it is ussed on catapult, it protects catapuls from attacks, but immobilise catapult in short period of time (can't move, can shoot). In general maybe to produce unit which is similar to "uruk shield", but for support of siege unit. :)
Some pictures I found:
Futhermore,also got idea how to make shakers more useful. Maybe would be nice to add new kind of form which will be selectable for shakers. I got idea when was playing with Necromancer, and with that unit we have possibility of chose between two forms (Attack=Fire form, Support=Dark form). So two forms for shakers, Disable unit form in whick shakers have attack of shorter cd (really shorter!), but their attack do only disable on units (almost no damage to buildings), and Building destroy form in which shakers do what they do now, do a massive damage to buildings, but have great attack cd.
Also to somehow make some armour upgrade for them, which will make them stronger and more durable.
About ballista for iron hills I suggest that unit will have only monster slaying role (shooting on trolls, giants, mumakils etc) and will do small area disable damage on units (almost no damage on units, only disable). This makes balista and earth shakers almost in ballance, both can somehow disable units and have different roles.
Also I have idea about adding new kind of building for dwarves in general. That building will be required for production of new elite siege units, also won't be soo expensive and will be required for casting "Earthquake power".  Look of that building will include already known Earth Hammer:
Insted that aside poles (Remove poles), I will suggest new aside parts like 2 new structures, maybe look of that aside buildings will be similar to red/black circled one from this picture:
And on that new aside parts (structuress) will be represented some symols of balista/siege shield, so we have unique bonus siege building.

Edit: Ok, also what about idea of integration of Windlance insted siege shield? I know this sounds maybe funny, or too difficult, but maybe windlance is good siege weapon for Ered Luin (One existed in Lake Town, and LT is Ered Luin's Outpost).
Windlance could have unique property of attacking only flying units so this unit will be useful against Smaug/Dragons/Fellbeasts/Eagles/etc. Windlance could have model of smaller ballista, and it's attack projectile model should be black arrows models from game (with maybe size modification).
So we will have next trio : Siege shield/Earthshaker/Ballista or Windlance/Earthshaker/Ballista.
In my opinion it would be sad with no trying to implement this epic sieqe weapon from movie... I presume that model is difficult, or maybe is better question is possible to make that Windlance like balista attack air units?

What you think about this? Similar ideas to help polishing this suggestion? xD :D
« Letzte Änderung: 9. Aug 2015, 03:34 von CragLord »

Gandalf The Gray

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #53 am: 9. Aug 2015, 01:19 »
well Earth Shaker are fair and balanced they have a cd and need protection because they have low hp

CragLord

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #54 am: 9. Aug 2015, 01:55 »
Gray, must admit you that nowadays I simply enjoy while reading your comments. (**)  (**)  (**)  :D  (Or to be precise content of that comments).   
Tell me why do you think shakers are fair and balanced? Balanced in which way? [ugly]
And what is purpose of your ascertainment that shakers have cd? Meanwhile, that ascertainment about low hp and protection looks very promising. 
P.S. Read this carefully.  xD
Cheers bro  (**)
« Letzte Änderung: 30. Sep 2015, 19:57 von CragLord »

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #55 am: 9. Aug 2015, 07:17 »
Shakers are not balanced nor strong enough at all!They need some little buff and that is something I think we all agree about! :)
Now CragLord you got my point about the deffensive Siege Unit for Ered Luin that is exactly what I thought but wasn't ableto post picsfrom my phone! :) The Idea of some Siege Unit protection and may be Ram Protection under the Gates is really good and will represent well the Deffensive nature ofthe Realm! :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Tienety

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #56 am: 9. Aug 2015, 09:40 »
i like this idea about Siege shield/Earthshaker/Ballista for dwarven subfactions. ;)
But why a new building for only one unit? These units can be available in the Dwarven siegeworks. :o

I think that Windlance is more fit as a defensive weapon on wall in fortress or for Dale/Lake-Town outpost. 8-)

CragLord

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #57 am: 9. Aug 2015, 14:05 »
I presumed you thought about shields. ;) I mentioned that in proposal. :)
What about my idea of shakers? Two selectable forms?

Tienety, maybe I was wrong in discription of idea. That building is not for production, that new building is mainly because that big hammer and "Earthquake" power from Powers Meni. Unique units will be avaliable in Siege works of course. Just wanted to connect somehow new unique siege units and new unique building. So new building will be required to cast power "Earthquake" (Dwarves are not mages so they could cast Earthquake, they need some kind of device), and be required so you can produce new units from siege works. Anyway if this proposal about new units and their production is too much, I dispose it.
« Letzte Änderung: 10. Aug 2015, 18:02 von CragLord »

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #58 am: 9. Aug 2015, 14:14 »
I like the idea about the choosable mode of the Shakerst this way they will be more diversed and will have wider are  for use! :) But wouldnt that make them somwhat strogner than itss couunterparts in other realms!? :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)
« Antwort #59 am: 20. Aug 2015, 22:19 »
So I have made a Poll which I think summs up all the options we have about the Siege Units and ideas,if someone doesnt agree he should just tell me and I will change the Poll a little! :)
So lets Vote and see the opinion of the Fans yet again! :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."