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Autor Thema: Quality material upgrades, new function for Structural Engineering  (Gelesen 6570 mal)

Elite KryPtik

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So the current system to level up Dwarf buildings is kind of scatterbrained, isn't it? xD
I think most people don't even realize that leveling up their resource buildings also levels up their unit production buildings, so the button should be made more prominent, on both resource buildings and on military buildings. It should appear similarly to the Ring Function and Playing System buttons on the citadel, so that people will actually read and be aware of the method of leveling their structures up.

Additionally, why does structural engineering still level buildings to level 3 when the Dwarves already have a unique system? This should be changed to something different, to improve the defense of the castle. My suggestion is to change the name to "Defensive Patrols" and make passive guardians patrol near each structure inside the castle and defend them, like Gorbag/Shagrats ability, and reappear after 60 seconds if they are killed. Post any ideas you have for a new and different function for this upgrade, I'm eager to read them!

Finally, I don't think that the Battle Tower Training upgrade does anything, or at least its not visible if its working. After researching it, towers on the walls still fire normal looking axes.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

CragLord

  • Gast
Totally support this idea! :) This is really necessary for better introduction with game in general (Of course I mean on informational level of game). This is "minor change" which will polish game and remind me on something similar I proposed in my thread for battle wagons.

Also agree, at first place I thought there was bug with structural upgrade in game.
It is avaliable to research  structural engineering on every stonemansion, which is absurd (There is no effect of those upgrades, simply you upgrade once on one stonemansion and that is that, what is point that this upgrade is still rsearchable on other stonemansions???). This upgrade should definitely add some improvement on defence system inside castle. About passive guardians patrol near structure, I say it sounds cool, but what is real benefit from it? Or better question is will that kind of change cause more lag or more slow gameplay? Simply, I find any kind of patrol unit unique as abilities or some expansions (as Dale). Don't  get me wrong, I support this as idea, but what is real benefit from that kind of change (Example: 2 warriors patrol near building, will they save building from attack of 3-4 battalions? They will  slow them and buy really minor amount of time. Is that some benefit? Of course if those guards do fighting, if you meant "passive"= not controlabe). I take to count and units from nearby builings, simply I think it would be nice visual change, nothing with real defence effect. That is my opinion. :) My proposal is maybe this upgrade should add some resistance to buildings against siege damage or add some small amount of armour in general. After all is this some kind of stone quality upgrade???

P.S. If I made some mistakes with current situations in game, I am sorry haven't played game for a week, maybe I confused/forgot something... :P
Same thing I wanted to add to my thread, as minor change which is nessesary. You forestalled me. xD If you find any more "minor" changes (which are bugs in general) which will polish game, please add them to my thread (I think you will find a lot of them, simply I see what kind of person are you from your comments. That topic I opened because I presumed people every day think out some minor change or simply find something during gameplay which could polish game in better way.  Simply I am expecting that you will find more of those "minor changes" :P ).

P.S. I know that English is your native language, so I am sorry for any kind of errors I made here, simply I know those errors will "stinging your eyes" ... :P :)
« Letzte Änderung: 12. Aug 2015, 02:34 von CragLord »

Elite KryPtik

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I don't really think any of these ideas or suggestions belong in your thread, as excellent as it may be, because they are not minor cosmetic changes. Making an entirely new button for 5 different structures is a major change, and the Towers not gaining their upgrade is a bug.

1 small note, the structural engineering upgrade actually does work if the buildings in the same castle/camp/outpost are not already level 3, which is why it can be researched multiple times. That is not a bug.

Finally, don't worry about your English, as long as I can understand the point you're trying to make I could care less how many errors there are. If I was just learning German my grammar would probably be just as horrible :P The only time I get upset at errors is in the mod, and only if they're really bad, because I want to be able to understand what I'm playing. Which is why I ultimately ended up working my ass off and becoming a beta tester :D
« Letzte Änderung: 12. Aug 2015, 02:58 von Elite KryPtik »
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

CragLord

  • Gast
I was thinking you suggested  to add one button about upgrades in general, anyway "Sharpness" of your answer left me speechless.  [ugly] :D :D :D
Agree about towers, simply I didn't think to add some bugs of that kind (there is ofc bug section for that) to my thread, simply cosmetic changes (Like glowing axes and similar, simply I haven't expressed my intention accurately... ). I am hoping you didn't undestand my intention as bad one. It was indirect invitation for support, nothing more. :P
I meant on level 3. ( Next time I deside to wrote on your topics/general in topics will check comment multiple times. :D)

« Letzte Änderung: 30. Sep 2015, 19:49 von CragLord »

Adrigabbro

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I gotta admit I hardly ever use the "upgrade all buildings to level 3" upgrade. I'm in favor of removing it. However I don't think adding patrols would fit. It's more of a goblin thing, like it was in 3.8.1 with Misty Mountains.


"That still only counts as one!"

Elite KryPtik

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Craglord, my reply was not intended to seem sharp or rude, just to the point. I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise :(

Adriggabro, don't just say you want to remove it, suggest a new idea! My idea is just that, an idea. I want to hear some ideas to make this upgrade a defensive one for the castle. It shouldn't be identical to Gondor's defensive upgrades though, being more health to walls and gate.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

CragLord

  • Gast
Sorry for this off topic comment! :)
I just find you like person who is accurate and precise, nothing bad in my mind. So it is natural you know how to answer and polish shape of your topic.This was very instructive for me in general. :)
P.S. Won't post anything off topic/stupid in future.

Regards.

Draco100000

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It shouldn't be identical to Gondor's defensive upgrades though, being more health to walls and gate.

Why it shouldnt be an upgrade to make walls and gat stronger. I mean, Dwarves are master builders, they rebuilt the Gate of Minas Tirith, Also the Gatge of Erebor was nearly Undestroyable. So I think a enormous improvement to the Gate, and the Walls could be awesome as a upgrade for dwarven stonemaker.

Adrigabbro

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I didn't give any idea because I didn't have one.  ;)
My point was my disagreement about your patrol idea.


"That still only counts as one!"

LordDainIronfoot

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I agree with Draco on this!Dwarves are may be the best builders and engeneers!So having the toughest Gates and Walls make sense!I would love to see some Master Stonewor and Dwarven Gate realyl strong and great looking!
But I think I know what will the ET say that Gondor already has those kind of uprgades and it will not be unique! :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Elite KryPtik

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That is precisely my point Dain. Also, the Dwarven castle is already extremely hard to take if the player makes good use of Raven towers and catapults, making gates and walls even stronger would just be that much more of a slap in the face to besiegers.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Gandalf The Gray

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Awesome idea

Tienety

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i have some idea for new unique improvements of fortress:
Oil Casks(This is old upgrade for dwarven fortress from bfme 2):
New fortress can have this update here:
You can ignite your enemies at the gate. :D

What do you think about this? 8-)
« Letzte Änderung: 16. Aug 2015, 16:09 von Tienety »

LordDainIronfoot

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I think it is a really nice idea! :) It will make their Defenses stronger and at the same time unique since no other Faction has it ! And it sounds really like something that the Dwarves would ahve come up :D
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Gandalf The Gray

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Awesome idea Tienety

CragLord

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Ok, this is nice suggestion. But don't you think it is unbalanced in comparison with other factions (Gondor, Angmar, Imladris, Rohan)? They should also have some kind of this gate upgrade, if somehow team decide to implement this idea. I see problem of balance? :) xD
« Letzte Änderung: 30. Sep 2015, 19:55 von CragLord »

LordDainIronfoot

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Well the same can be said about Gondors "Numenor Stonework" and "Teinforced Gates" so I see it more as unique feature rather thna unblanced ones! :) Rohan can get something like Garrioson may be "Spear Throwers" as at Helms Deep! :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

CragLord

  • Gast
I am just trying to point on possible problem.
It is not some big change which will make dwarves more stronger or better, and is it unique or not, there is diversity which point on balace. I more for adding some similar upgrade for Outpost building maybe... Just want to say, we will need to add for other factions similar kind of gate upgrades with aoe effect ofc. :)
About this topic in genaral, dwarves are stone masters, Numenorian stonework is good but dwarven stonework should be better, of greater quality. I am for idea of implementing some Stone/gate upgrades for Dwarves.
Simple won't say that uniqueness of Numenorian upgrades is something which should block this idea or it is excuse for uniques of Tienety idea. There is no logic, that Dwarves in general don't have this upgade (As stone masters), and Gondor has. :)

P.S. About spear towers, can you add some picture of them? :) They will be anti unit upgrade, without aoe effect? :P :)

Elite KryPtik

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Actually Craglord, the Numenorians were just as masterful workers of stone as the Dwarves. All you have to do is look at Minas Tirith, the Argonath, Amon Sul in its prime, Osgiliath, etc. I think each good faction should have 3 researchable castle upgrades, Gondor already has 3, giving the Dwarves the oil cask or another upgrade would give them 3, and then Rohan would just need 3. In terms of defence, Rohan is by far the weakest, all you need are a few catapults, so something definitely needs to be done for them.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

LordDainIronfoot

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I am just trying to point on possible problem.
It is not some big change which will make dwarves more stronger or better, and is it unique or not, there is diversity which point on balace. I more for adding some similar upgrade for Outpost building maybe... Just want to say, we will need to add for other factions similar kind of gate upgrades with aoe effect ofc. :)
About this topic in genaral, dwarves are stone masters, Numenorian stonework is good but dwarven stonework should be better, of greater quality. I am for idea of implementing some Stone/gate upgrades for Dwarves.
Simple won't say that uniqueness of Numenorian upgrades is something which should block this idea or it is excuse for uniques of Tienety idea. There is no logic, that Dwarves in general don't have this upgade (As stone masters), and Gondor has. :)

P.S. About spear towers, can you add some picture of them? :) They will be anti unit upgrade, without aoe effect? :P :)
I agree about you CragLord about the Stonework and Gate upgrade for Dwarves as the greatest stonemakers but the Team will simply say that Gondro and Arnor already has those Upgrades and it will not be unique!But I am all for that idea may be something like  "Kahzad-Dum Stonework" and "Great Gates of Erebor"/"Great Gates" and will be awsome! :)
But this doesnt mean Tienity idea is bad and it can really be something like between them like having the "Khazad-Dum Stonework" and isntead of "Reinforced Gates"/"Great Gates" we can have "Oil Crates" for Gate protecion!?
What you tihnk about that!? :)
Actually Craglord, the Numenorians were just as masterful workers of stone as the Dwarves. All you have to do is look at Minas Tirith, the Argonath, Amon Sul in its prime, Osgiliath, etc. I think each good faction should have 3 researchable castle upgrades, Gondor already has 3, giving the Dwarves the oil cask or another upgrade would give them 3, and then Rohan would just need 3. In terms of defence, Rohan is by far the weakest, all you need are a few catapults, so something definitely needs to be done for them.
While I agree about the Rohan part I must say that while the Numenorians were one of the best stoneworkers the Dwarves still are better :)
Now for Rohan,what you think about adding a Garrison on Catapults Slot or just Garrison at the gates woh some "Spear Throwers" which can hvae some better damage against Monsters :) And may be :"Stone Throwers"  since some peasant were throwing Stones :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

CragLord

  • Gast
Yes, I agree about numbers of researchable castle upgrades. Maybe you can make some list of current available castle upgrades so we can discuss properly (Right now I can't remember all names of them, their properties etc).
About comparison between Dwarves and Numenorians, there is no way that Numenorians were equal to Dwarven skills at stone shaping/building. Numenorians were also described like race of men which was very good at constructional problems in general, I say that Numenorians probably constructed buildings of great beauty and quality. Dwarven buildings were of better quality but lesser beauty. That is my opinion.
P.S. Dwarves helped during history many times to other races and build for them. If one of most ancient elves (Tingol) was impressed with their work, that is indication that Dwarves construced buildings of great beauty and quality. Also Dwarves repaired Gate at Minas Thirith after Sauron final fall. Simply Dwarves were engineering race. They was created by Aule, that is enough information about their "genetic" predispositions.

Yes, I know you agree. :) Simply team uses their position to deny those ideas, and I must say it is wrong in some cases. (My simple opinion!) We have already unique, or that will induce unbalance. Don't want to write more about that "situation". Again I say idea is here,Lore facts are here also, if team already deny it what to do, lets reconsider other prepositions.
I didn't say his idea is bad, you have concluded wrong from my comment! :) 99,99% of his ideas are nice/epic, and you know I support most of them, and I am always trying to help you to polish them! I just said that kind of thinking (I thought it was yours): Gondor already had unique wall/gate upgrade, we won't add it for dwarves, that was little stupid in my opinion. Sometime we use uniqueness of some already existing idea to block some other idea (and in general that is not main reason), or block idea from prospective of balance/unbalance (that should be main reason, not something else). If some kind of Gate upgrade should exist, then it is upgrade of hp or armour against siege attacks, simply that is better in my opinion (but team deny this as you said). About those barrels, I don't have anything against, simply we will have fire aoe damage here, others don't have that, what similar could you implement for Imladris gate or Rohan gate? I am talking about aoe damage upgrade.
Anyway, this is all on theoretic base. Maybe is better to make list with current castle upgrades, and then start proper discussion. :)
« Letzte Änderung: 16. Aug 2015, 20:12 von CragLord »

LordDainIronfoot

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I know you didnt say it was bad!I was just stasing that the ideas so not bad over all not that you said it is bad! :)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Hal9000

  • Gast
Sorry for the double topic, I repost some ideas :

- Give a bonus to walls and doors with the stoneworker.
- Defensive upgrade on the door of Dwarven castles using oil, it could be great and never seen in other factions.
- Improving mine tunnels: increase the transport capacity of the mine, two additional units.
- Improve shooting range:  siege weapons and battle towers have better range (only for the castle). What do you think of my ideas? :)
« Letzte Änderung: 18. Aug 2015, 16:34 von Hal9000 »