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Autor Thema: Gondor cavalry is truely better than Rohan cavalry. And some outpost ideas  (Gelesen 15808 mal)

™Æ¿® Aragorn £ ‡™

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Gondor cavalry does right about the same trample damage.

And the same damage in general.

But, gondor cavalry is more tanky (1050 health, 1650 upgraded)

They may be 120 command points while Rohan's are 90, but still... It is only a 30 command point difference.

I believe Rohan cavalry (Axe rohhirrim, Normal rohhirrim) should be 60 command points (To encourage more cavalry game play in rohan)

Right now, the only thing rohan has that is better than the other factions is the spear throwers.

That is very wrong, because it not 'cavalry', but a ranged unit.

Rohan needs every type of cavalry possible in their arsenal.

Axe rohhirrim are 'light' cavalry

Rohhirrim are 'normal' cavalry

The Westfold cavalry should fill-up heavy cavalry, in the stables.


Riders of the west fold should become a normal cavalry unit (Rank 2 stables)

And be 120 command points; and 700-850-resources (Not limited)

And of course, removed as an option from the Rohan captains.

I do not think a cavalry faction should be defined by peasant spam, and spear-throwers.

I got a second idea.
This one would be on their outpost.


What about building some kind of super stables?

And in this stables, you can buy all your normal cavalry with better stats.

And all the cavalry in there are 50% better than normal.

They would have 50% more health, 50% more damage; would be 50% faster, And slow down less while trampling.

It would cost around 800-2500.

It could be called 'Breeding grounds of the king'

I know it is ripping off the power  called 'royal breeding', but, that could be replaced with something more useful.

Please, post any outpost ideas you have here, if you got anything better  :D
« Letzte Änderung: 17. Aug 2015, 10:23 von ™Æ¿® Aragorn £ ‡™ »
Sup :P

Elite KryPtik

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Most of your points here are totally wrong.

First, Rohan cavalry are super cheap, they only cost 280 resources with 6 stud farms, Gondors cavalry with full discounts from farms are still above 400.
Second, Gondr Knights having more health is justified by the leaderships granted by all of Rohans heroes, who can all mount, and the difference in command points.
Third, Breeding Horses allows Rohan cavalry to become more powerful than any other cavalry in the game once they are leveled up.
Fourth, Rohirrim of the Eastfold have an extremely useful formation, which when used skillfully can even defeat enemy pikemen.
Fifth, Rohirrim Archers kick serious ass with fire arrows, and their arrows pierce heavy armor. They are significantly better than spear throwers late game, and much cheaper as well.
Sixth, the idea for the "Kings Breeding Grounds" is essentially the same as the current military camp spellbook power, which lets you generate an entire standing army of Rohirrim for free.
Seventh, Théoden has Glorious Charge, combined with the faction that can have the most cavalry on the field at once. Enough said.

Now, as for your ideas to make Westfold Cavalry a separate unit from captains and make basic cavalry cost 60 CP, both of these have already been mentioned by other people, myself included, and I do agree with making the basic Rohirrim cost only 60 CP. The biggest issues with Rohan right now are how weak their heroes are in late game, their expensive upgrades which make it harder to progress to late game, and finally like you mentioned, Peasant spam is simply more effective and useful than making cavalry. Making changes to the health and command points of Rohirrim will not change this, because pikes still win on the whole against Rohan's cavalry.

Finally, there is already a separate thread for Rohan Outpost ideas, so you should be posting your outpost ideas there. Please do more research on the forums before and in game before making these mostly incorrect posts. Sorry if that sounds rude, I'm just being straight up with you :)
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Adrigabbro

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I'll take this chance to give an idea of mine I've already proposed, but got no answer:
How about making Riders of the Eastfold a cheaper (but weaker) version of Rohirrims ? It would perhaps ease the transition between peasants and cavalry (make it more natural) while giving those units a better spot.

Also, second idea/question concerning cavalry: why can't Rohirrims toggle between spear and bow? It would help defeating an opponent who is stacking pikes. "Pure" Rohirrim archers would still be used because they would deal much more damage than normal Rohirrims with bow.


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Elite KryPtik

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I don't like the idea of making eastfold rohirrim weaker. I like them in their current form, good against pikes with their formation. Also, rohirrim from the tents can toggle between spear and bow.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

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I know that. That's no answer...


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Why not? Whats wrong with having the toggle on the summoned rohirrim?
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

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There is nothing wrong with that. But why couldn't it also be on the regular Rohirrims?


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I think it would be redundant and unnecessary to have all Rohirrim able to switch between ranged and melee. Generally, the melee Rohirrim are good early to mid game at killing most enemies, and late game when enemies become extremely strong through upgrades is when the mounted archers come in. Giving all Rohirrim a weak ranged attack is pointless in my view.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

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Think of it. You are facing a massive Isengard army. You decided to go for the Last March of the Ents path, trying to defeat the enemy early, but it didn't work out. You need to get rid of that annoying pikesmen Uruk frontline before charging in. Archer Rohirrims can't do it on their own because you don't have enough CP to gather both regular and archer cavalry. Would it still be pointless?


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Elite KryPtik

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Once Isengard has a fully upgraded army, you cannot engage in melee at all, period. At that point all you can do is make a bunch of Rohirrim Archers and hit and run till you wear them down, or do a base race and ignore the enemy army completely. If melee Rohirrim could switch to a weak bow attack, it wouldn't do any more good than charging in with Rohirrim of the Eastfold and switching to Line Formation to engage in melee. A weak bow that doesn't pierce heavy armor isn't even going to scratch an Isengard army. If you want to test this theory yourself, next time you are facing an enemy army late game with Rohirrim, make an army comprised of tent Rohirrim, who can switch to a weak bow which doesn't have fire arrows or pierce heavy armor, and you will see how useless it is.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

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Fine, you are right about that scenario. But until your opponent gathers such an army, there is at least a 20 minutes window, more if you are not playing against Isengard. You can't argue how handy this change would be concerning small skirmishes, that do manage to happen a lot. Isn't it the whole point of this thread? Making Rohan cavalry handier so that you can win without relentlessly stacking peasants ?

As for Rohan lategame, I believe there are other ways to fix it (an alternative outpost, a new way to get elite infantry, buffs for heroes etc... )


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I truly believe the current system is fine for early-mid game. If you give all Rohirrim a ranged attack, it would be OP. How can enemy pikes counter you early on if you can just run away and continually take potshots at them? I don't think any changes need to be made to the current Rohirrim. I agree that late game is problematic, but there are ways to fix it without making the current basic horses overpowered. For example, by adding better infantry, making the tent camp Rohirrim stronger, to act as elite units, of which Rohan currently has none, and my personal idea to cause pikes to not deal crush revenge unless put in porcupine formation. I also really think that Rohirrim and Eastfold Rohirrim should be made 60 CP to better represent Rohan as a cavfalry faction. I just don't think that it fits to have all Rohirrim able to fire a bow, and indeed it wouldn't make sense, not all of the Rohirrim have this skill. They are fine as they are, and already are the best basic cavalry in the game.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

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Not all Rohirrim have this skill, you got a point. Still, I don't know how truly OP or interesting it would be. Not saying that I think I'm 100% right, but I remain unsettled. Guess there is no point in debating further. ^^

Concerning your other ideas, here are my thoughts:
~> 60 CP Rohirrims could allow a greater army that's true. Still not sufficient on its own when you face Uruk pikesmen with Shields. But it remains interesting.
~> The camp spell is supposed to represent the call to the war. It means a large amount of riders, not necessarily the best ones. I don't see why they should act as elite units.
~> About the porcupine formation, I don't like the idea of changing a fundamental aspect of the game just for the sake of one faction. I believe it would not be worth it. So hard to manage in a game like that (too much latency, lag etc...)

Finally, some thoughts of mine:
By the time you get enough powerpoints to get the Camp spell, it's already getting quite late in the game. The fact is that you also have to wait some more before using the spell efficiently (researching for the upgrades that will get you (better) riders). How about decreasing that amount of time needed? That could be a start.
Also, the spell that provides your level 5 troops with bred horses is strong but it's hard enough to get level 5 regular units. Perhaps lowering the amount of experience needed? like level 3.


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I like both of those ideas of yours at the end. In terms of my idea on porcupine formation, its not just for 1 faction, it would be for all cavalry. It really makes sense if you think about it: Why do cavalry take damage from pikemen who are walking with their weapons pointed straight up in the air?
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

™Æ¿® Aragorn £ ‡™

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I like both of those ideas of yours at the end. In terms of my idea on porcupine formation, its not just for 1 faction, it would be for all cavalry. It really makes sense if you think about it: Why do cavalry take damage from pikemen who are walking with their weapons pointed straight up in the air?

Dude, in-order for your idea to work, they need to make cavalry take more damage when they run pikes over.

Because at the moment, it is face-palmingly low.  :D

And do any of you know the fact that the upgrade in the Rohan tent (10 power point spell) Armory does not work?

And to be honest, Gondor knights could use a damage nerf.

They are killing everything (Even pikes) and they beat Royal guards, dol amroth knights 1v1.

Also, Faramir gives Gondor knights 50% more armor, so they do get good leadership.

And gondor has Imrahil, who is a very good cavalry leader.

My point is Gondor's cavalry stands a chance against Rohan's, while Rohan's infantry would never stand up to Gondor's infantry.

Rohan has no super defensive spear unit (Tower guards)

No heroic infantry (The captains are nice, but not true heroic infantry)

Rohan has Peasants, and if you include the captains, that's all their melee infantry.

Their ranged infantry isn't too bad though.

But, the cavalry side should get a buff that doesn't overpower it.

Their cavalry should have more health, 600 is too average for the 'cavalry' faction.


« Letzte Änderung: 19. Aug 2015, 09:06 von ™Æ¿® Aragorn £ ‡™ »
Sup :P