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New design for the Dwarven units

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Walküre:

--- Zitat von: calsash am 14. Dez 2015, 23:10 ---
--- Zitat von: Melkor Bauglir am 14. Dez 2015, 23:00 ---Sorry, but I just can't agree to that.
I am fine with leaving out Gimli as an example of a light-armoured dwarf eventhough my point wasn't that, because Gimli wore light armour, now every dwarf should. It was that I personally think a little more restraint would have been an extremely good advice for the designers of the Hobbit movies!
Now specifically concerning the crossbow: First of all I doubt that dwarves are so much more stronger than men. They might be very well stronger in relation to their size and their favourite jobs as smiths or miners do of course create very strong people and of course they are very stubborn. However they are still 2 heads smaller than humans, meaning they weight probably a lot less and physical work also strengthens a human. Let's say equally strong, but definitely not (massively) stronger by nature!
Secondly, I just don't like this crossbow's look. It looks to modern being completely covered with metal platings and I see no point for the dwarves ever to use such a weapon: If it were for a practical advantage, perhaps, but this just looks clunky! ;)

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

--- Ende Zitat ---
"Dwarves were a proud and stern race and were made to be sturdy to resist the dangers of their time. They were physically very strong, had great endurance, especially in the ability to resist heat and cold, and they made light of heavy burdens." This description of the dwarves shows that they were much stronger than men, after all they were created from the stone itself by the valar Aule.


--- Ende Zitat ---

Yes, I agree too.
Not only are the Dwarves more resistant to Magic, but they are undoubtedly stronger than Humans as well.

If we take into consideration the three races of Elves, Dwarves and Humans, the latter are definitely 'less gifted' by Nature (Ilúvatar) compared to the other two, especially when we refer to physical and natural characteristics, intended as the proper characteristics of each race that define them, as the Elven Immortality.

Obviously, if we consider the Men of Númenor, the standards might change a bit.
Given, though, that we mainly refer to the late Third Age and relative Men of Gondor and Rohan, the physical attributes of the Dwarves are still superior.

Adamin:
Now hush boys! Be nice to each other, or I'll have to start moderating.

@ Calsash & LordDain:
Don't get too defensive without thinking about it. They have a point that the Hobbit Design is more fantastic than the LotR Design. I think it's great that more people are trying to give their input here.
Were is this quote about the dwarven strength coming from anyway?


@ Hüter:
Well you kinda shot yourself an own goal with your first post. :D
As you can read here from the chronicles Weta did built the boarbows as functional props. If someone knows how to do that, it's them.
But yeaaah, as you said, you're more interested in the usability. I'd say a crossbow is a pretty complicated weapon in every form. Cranking up the string is always hard. And a normal Crossbow-bow is also made of metal, so i guess it would have similar weight.

Honestly as I said I think the only downside to the boarbows is simply that they don't look like crossbows. But then again, that's kinda a very unique thing to achieve. ;)

I think you're right that the Hobbit Props are far more stylized than some of the LotR Props. But I don't think that's a bad thing. After all the Hobbit always was the more playful book. "Realistic" is the wrong word to judge the designs by, because there simply are no real dwarves. So why should the dwarven gear be limited by what a realistic human can use? The better word to use is "practical" in my Opinion. And in that Weta is king.

In comparison to every other fantasy dwarf I always prefer the Weta ones. Their Armor, their used materials and workmanship makes sense in itself. Every Prop is made with the needed details to fulfill its purpose. All you have to do is assume that there is a dwarf that might fit into that.

Iron Man is a good example for that. They had a real metal suit made for the first movie. RDJ hated it, because he couldn't really move in it. So they made it fully with CGI, RDJ could perform to make us believe the suit could exist, and the movie was great.

I think that extra fantasy tick was only that much apparent in the Hobbit, because as Val said Elves and Humans are (visually) much more alike than Dwarves. There just were too few Dwarves in the LotR. Gimlis too much in traveller garb.
And it's not like there weren't any "unrealistic" elements in the LotR. Anyone remembers the Witchkings morning star, with the size of a small car? ;)

calsash:

--- Zitat von: Adamin am 15. Dez 2015, 01:00 ---Now hush boys! Be nice to each other, or I'll have to start moderating.

@ Calsash & LordDain:
Don't get too defensive without thinking about it. They have a point that the Hobbit Design is more fantastic than the LotR Design. I think it's great that more people are trying to give their input here.
Were is this quote about the dwarven strength coming from anyway?


@ Hüter:
Well you kinda shot yourself an own goal with your first post. :D
As you can read here from the chronicles Weta did built the boarbows as functional props. If someone knows how to do that, it's them.
But yeaaah, as you said, you're more interested in the usability. I'd say a crossbow is a pretty complicated weapon in every form. Cranking up the string is always hard. And a normal Crossbow-bow is also made of metal, so i guess it would have similar weight.

Honestly as I said I think the only downside to the boarbows is simply that they don't look like crossbows. But then again, that's kinda a very unique thing to achieve. ;)

I think you're right that the Hobbit Props are far more stylized than some of the LotR Props. But I don't think that's a bad thing. After all the Hobbit always was the more playful book. "Realistic" is the wrong word to judge the designs by, because there simply are no real dwarves. So why should the dwarven gear be limited by what a realistic human can use? The better word to use is "practical" in my Opinion. And in that Weta is king.

In comparison to every other fantasy dwarf I always prefer the Weta ones. Their Armor, their used materials and workmanship makes sense in itself. Every Prop is made with the needed details to fulfill its purpose. All you have to do is assume that there is a dwarf that might fit into that.

Iron Man is a good example for that. They had a real metal suit made for the first movie. RDJ hated it, because he couldn't really move in it. So they made it fully with CGI, RDJ could perform to make us believe the suit could exist, and the movie was great.

I think that extra fantasy tick was only that much apparent in the Hobbit, because as Val said Elves and Humans are (visually) much more alike than Dwarves. There just were too few Dwarves in the LotR. Gimlis too much in traveller garb.
And it's not like there weren't any "unrealistic" elements in the LotR. Anyone remembers the Witchkings morning star, with the size of a small car? ;)

--- Ende Zitat ---
The quote if from one of the Tolkien guide books I believe it to be a paraphrase of this quote from the silmarillion: "Since they were to come in the days of the power of Melkor, Aulë made the dwarves strong to endure. Therefore they are stone-hard, stubborn, fast in friendship and in enmity, and they suffer toil and hunger and hurt of body more hardily than all other speaking peoples; and they live long, far beyond the span of Men, yet not forever." :)

Adamin:
Thank you. :)
That quote I also know from the Silmarillion. And I would also say it means that the Dwarves were stronger than Men, even if it's not explicitly stated.

Walküre:

--- Zitat von: Adamin am 15. Dez 2015, 09:37 ---That quote I also know from the Silmarillion. And I would also say it means that the Dwarves were stronger than Men, even if it's not explicitly stated.


--- Ende Zitat ---

Yes, this is what we were speculating about  :P

As a sort of specific degrees of characteristics, the Dwarves were definitely gifted more than Men about what we consider natural and strictly physical prerogatives, regarding their own material body and the very boundaries that the material Reality implies.

Obviously, one could say that Humans are in the end the most gifted among all, with the special Gift of Death that Ilúvatar granted them; but, since we are mainly referring to physical matters, Men are indeed affected more by all the natural burdens of the World, considering only the 'negative' aspects.

So, I think that we can say indeed that Dwarves are stronger by NATURE  8-)

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