[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Discussion and Feedback
New design for the Dwarven units
korner:
Yes, I have read nearly all suggestions, and nearly all of them I have read the full thread.
As I already said twice now:
I DO NOT WANT TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO! I just wanted to give you a hint what MIGHT be the reason you are/ you feel ignored in the english forum.
Post as many ideas as you like, but think about if this is really necessary.
Imagine you were a member of the team:
Woul you read so many threads with similar suggestions and so many postings per day in a language that is not your mother tongue??
Wouldn´t it be easier for you if these suggestions would be kept shorter and more focussed?
When you decide to implement a change: would you prefer to do the one that is kept short (and which you liek personally) or would you prefer the one with 40 postings all going into different directions?
Again: I am no member of the team and I might be completely wrong.
I just wanted to refer to your disappointment and give some hints how you MIGHT be more successfull with your ideas. Ignore that if you want, but them please don´t complain...
(Palland)Raschi:
Folks, the Jackson movie design of the dwarves of the iron hills does not match the description in the Hobbit book and that is the main reason why the Modding Team prefers their version.
Besides it is a really interesting fact that the english community prefers the movie design to the Edain Version while the german community votes the other way around.
Anyway the Edain teamlLeader has already made clear in his review of the last Hobbit movie that there will not be any changes concerning the ironhill dwarves. I think that should make clear that changes are completely exculded and any kind of discussion if this decision was right or wrong would be a waste of time.
Gnomi:
--- Zitat ---And yes ET till yesterday have ignored quite a bit the EN Forum I know that they are busy and I respect thier efforts and time spared for us!
--- Ende Zitat ---
Just a small thing:
Just because we don't write something doesn't mean we ignore this part. I personally read nearly everything and write much more in the english parts than in the german parts. ;)
--- Zitat ---Talking about Arnor has been proven pointless as did with the Dwarves,
--- Ende Zitat ---
Well, you have to look it from this point of view:
We would have never integrated Arnor on our own. We don't like it and would never have done anything in this direction. But our fans wanted Arnor, therefore we integrated Arnor this way. So the current version is already a compromise and a big admission from us to our fans. The same is with many of the dwarves - we don't like it, but as many people like it we try to look for an integration in the game which includes those units, but still is fine for us.
So it's not pointless - but after we do a thing just because of our fans and not because we want it you can't blame us for doing even more and more. This is not how a compromise works. ;) We can also say: "Oh, we're ignoring our own wishes, as we didn't want to integrate Arnor at all, man we're really bad people to ourselves."
As most people in the german forum are part of this page for a long time, they know us much better and therefore suggest tradeoffs on their own.
Some of them want A, but we want C, so some people suggest B, even though they want A. And B has a much better change of implementation, as this is not an extreme.
--- Zitat ---And I am really feeling like we are wasting our time on all those concepts and ideas in which we put our hearts.minds and entusiasm to create and help theis Great Mod to beceom the Greatest Ever but we go unnoticed! :(
--- Ende Zitat ---
I don't know how often I've read this. I will write my answer to this one more time:
Imagine following example:
Some fans want to integrate Thorin as a hero slayer and make a huge concept for him.
Others want Thorin as a supporter and also create a huge concept for him.
The next group wants Thorin as a mass slayer and also create a gigantic concept for him.
The last group wants Thorin as a mixture and creates a concept for this idea.
So now there are 4 different concepts for the same hero and even if we like all 4 of them, we just can't integrate all of them. if we integrate one of those concepts 75% of the users are frustrated, because their concept, which they put their "hearts, minds and enthusiasm to create" in wasn't integrated.
Additionally quite often some parts just doesn't fit into the game, f.e. because of balancing reasons, technical reasons or other problems. Therefore it can happen that we integrate one concept - but only half of it, as the other half caused above problems.
Now even the people with the used concept are frustrated, because we changed their concept.
What could we have done different?
Nothing, everything would have caused those problems.
Well, we are mostly thinking on our own about concepts, reading the concepts of the community and then try to create a concept which includes our ideas and the ideas of the user-concepts.
Quite often ideas are also used for different heroes - f.e. someone wanted Thorin as a assassin and had a great concept for him, but we wanted him to be a supporter. If we like the concept nevertheless it happened quite often that we used the user concept and integrated it (of course with some changes again) for a different hero.
Now the next problem:
100% of our current stuff is based on team-member concepts or fan concepts.
If you want to change it and make some player happy, it can happen that the fan which concept was used, but deleted in favor of the new one, is frustrated, as he put in his "heart, mind and enthusiasm to create".
Do you also see this problem?
Additionally those concepts always need a lot of time for us and this is a hobby which is done in our free time. I'm currently learning algebra 8-10 hours a day(last exam tomorrow), working on my bachelor thesis another 2 hours and afterwards I have to cook dinner, go shopping and clean my appartment.
And then I have about 2-3 hours of free time. In this time I don't really want to work on things I don't like. Working on such things would lead to frustration which leads to lower working morale which leads to less work done which leads to even more frustration which leads to me stop working on edain.
Sometimes such things has to be done, but not always. If I'm only working 20% of the time on things I like, this isn't a hobby anymore which I like.
--- Zitat ---And I think the Poll was clear enough to what the Fans want, but still the current Iron Hills Models can be used for so many other things! :)
--- Ende Zitat ---
In the german pool:
32 people like Edain-design
19 people like the movie-design
In the english pool:
18 like Edain-design
26 like the moviedesign.
Therefore 50 people voted for Edain-design, 44 voted for movie-design.
I don't see how the poll is anywhere near clear against the edain-design and for the movie-design.
Even when we say that german and english polls count exactly the same:
Then still only 48% of the votes would be for the movie design and 52% for the edain-version.
As as, as a team, also don't like the movie design, this looks for me like a clear win for the edain-design. ;)
So we'ld be doing what our fans want by not integrating the designs.
Tl;DR:
You can't blame us for ingoring our fans wishes or the english forum. Just try to see everything from our perspective and you'll notice that we aren't as evil and that there are many problems which always make a modding team seem worse than it is in reality.
CragLord:
--- Zitat von: (Palland)Raschi am 24. Aug 2015, 13:35 ---Anyway the Edain teamlLeader has already made clear in his review of the last Hobbit movie that there will not be any changes concerning the ironhill dwarves. I think that should make clear that changes are completely exculded and any kind of discussion if this decision was right or wrong would be a waste of time.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Agree, sad but true, for now. :(
--- Zitat ---Folks, the Jackson movie design of the dwarves of the iron hills does not match the description in the Hobbit book and that is the main reason why the Modding Team prefers their version.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Well, that is binar kind of thinking, because in book we have description of Dwarven veterans(mainly from Iron Hills, those are also soldires from Orc-Dwarven wars) , not mainly description of Iron Hills dwarves or this faction. Sadly this is only description of Iron Hills soldiers in lore, and team mapped this on whole faction. I don't have problem with current models in game, just I would like to see some kind of implementation of BOTFA models. We have suggested more times that through Dain's summoning spell.
PJ failed with look of veterans in movie, but this models are nice, and they could be used in other purposes. That is point here, not only idea of replacement of current models.
Anyway, we are "fighting" here for some changes in far future obviously...
P.S. korner, I understand you completely, in sake of this topic I won't answer more. :)
P.S.2 Gnomi, thank you for reply. :)
Regards
Walküre:
--- Zitat von: korner am 24. Aug 2015, 13:31 ---Woul you read so many threads with similar suggestions and so many postings per day in a language that is not your mother tongue??
Wouldn´t it be easier for you if these suggestions would be kept shorter and more focussed?
When you decide to implement a change: would you prefer to do the one that is kept short (and which you liek personally) or would you prefer the one with 40 postings all going into different directions?
--- Ende Zitat ---
I too am not a member of the Edain Team and I obviously respect your opinions, but I honestly find your conclusions totally out of logic :)
I always regarded the MU's mechanism of renewing the threads and encouraging, then, an useful and wide (always focused on the topic) discussion (in which the general proposal is being constantly polished and perfectionated), as one of the most significant qualities of this website, making it superior to ModDB, if we talk about proposals and Discussion.
I in fact sincerely think that the most interesting and rich threads of the English Community are exactly the ones that currently have a lot of posts and a wide discussion in them (for example the threads about Elrond, Galadriel, Lórien in general, a new possible Scout Hero for the Iron Hills,...); check them, if you want, for they are really interesting ;)
Also, I would say that the linguistic barrier is not a problem at all, and should not be so, as we have and should have the same opportunities and possibilities of expressing our own ideas and being heard; furthermore, talking about a 'mother tongue' issue wouldn't be fair at all, for the Edain Team itself in the first place, since most of it speak and write in plain and perfectly understandable English, and they also released a complete English Version of the Edain Mod 4.0 and welcomed us on MU (from the initial project of the EIC on ModDB) with the specific purpose of making us really 'feel' part of the Edain Community, without any barrier left.
And, let me just say that the majority the members of the English Community are not native speakers of English in the first place (me neither), so this is definitely not an issue :)
Concerning strictly this thread, you will find that it's full of reasonable, variegated and never-useless proposals, making it, in my opinion, an interesting thread; and I think it would be a little bit discrediting saying the opposite thing (agreeing or not agreeing with the topic).
I myself proposed different possible solutions, since I always stated from the beginning that I'm thoroughly against any total replacement of the Edain Mod's models.
Greetings :)
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