[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Discussion and Feedback
New design for the Dwarven units
LordDainIronfoot:
I see your point!But I think that the Slayers should remain to maintain the balance betwen Movie and Book Lore! :) They are perfect interpratation of the Veterans fom the Book and Look Awesome! :) They could only get some minor Visual Changes to match the Regualr Infantry if it is changed!
Like this for EXAMPLE of course! This for Two Handed Mattock
This for Shield but with Iron Hills Motive and insignia! :) Or the Same Shields are fine! :)
With Red Boar Motive! :)
This for Axes I know they look similar but I tihnk this one is more detailed and beaudtifull :)
What you tihnk about this!? :)
Walküre:
--- Zitat von: TiberiusOgden am 17. Aug 2015, 17:34 ---Just comment:
--- Zitat von: Adamin am 31. Mai 2015, 20:01 ---On the general topic:
At the moment there are no further plans to import the look of the basic iron hill dwarves into Edain (either because most of the team isn't convinced by the design, and because there is no modeler available to do it). We might experiment with it in the far future, but right now we have other priorities.
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Yes, this quote of Adamin is pretty lapidary and exhaustive.
The BOTFA Iron Hills' pikes can't obviously be immediately and fully implemented in the game, lest the similarity and connection among the concepts of the units of the Iron Hills will be broken.
But I also like very much that concept, among the many abominations of the Hobbit trilogy; I thus sincerely think that it would be worthy to be somehow included, as all the other worthy concepts from the Hobbit trilogy (Thranduil's silver armour, Mirkwood's general concept, Lord Dáin's concept, Thorin's royal armour,...) have been rightly implemented :)
I also personally think that heavy-armoured soldiers, like those, would appropriately represent the impressive warfare and military engineering of the Iron Hills realm at that time; fundamental elements that BOTFA succeeded, I think, to portrait, with also the display of the Ram Riders and the Ballistas 8-)
I'm sure there can be many ways they could 'experiment' with this concept.
What if, as someone surely has already suggested, Dáin were able to summon, with his level 10 ability, the BOTFA Iron Hills' pikes as his personal Royal Guard?
These units have a similar armour to the one of Dáin (similar design to the general aspects of Dáin's armour) and thus would be suitable to be regarded as his personal Defence; furthermore, I generally like very much the idea of Royal Guards for Kings and Queens, as it significantly widens the role of Leaders, and shows their Majesty on the battlefield ;)
CragLord:
Wow, I am late on this Dwarven topic...
--- Zitat von: LordDainIronfoot am 17. Aug 2015, 17:24 --- A hypothetical question that can be usefull in the far Future!? :)
So as I see on Edain Page on ModDB and even here on MU there is a debate between those who likes and wants Iron Hills Movie Designs for the Soldiers and those who want and like more the current Edain Version of them!: )
Now this is a pure hypothethical question with a Poll ,the goal is to see which group is bigger and each of them to state their reasons of course! We can sue Pics from Concept Arts and ideas of all sorts to prove why they should be used or why they shouldnt,all in the good maniers and culture! :)
This can prove usefull in future,so lets just have a nice and good diskussion thats all! :)
Greetings from Lord Dain ! :)
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Lord Dain, I love your enthusiasm. :)
And really nice intentions. :) This problem really bothers me also, and I know this is not only hypothetical. :P :D I support you! :)
--- Zitat von: TiberiusOgden am 17. Aug 2015, 17:34 --- Just comment:
--- Zitat von: Adamin am 31. Mai 2015, 20:01 ---On the general topic:
At the moment there are no further plans to import the look of the basic iron hill dwarves into Edain (either because most of the team isn't convinced by the design, and because there is no modeler available to do it). We might experiment with it in the far future, but right now we have other priorities.
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About that answer from team, I respect their decisions. But they probably have modeler, but don't have time, etc... :P :D It is about preferences, and we respect that, and with some enthusiasm we are trying to change current situation. :D
For further discussion I will paste some lines from book:
Dain had come. He had hurried on through the night,
and so had come upon them sooner than they had expected. Each one of
his folk was clad in a hauberk of steel mail that hung to his knees, and his
legs were covered with hose of a fine and flexible metal mesh, the secret
of whose making was possessed by Dains people.
The dwarves are exceedingly strong for their height, but most of
these were strong even for dwarves. In battle they wielded heavy twohanded
mattocks; but each of them had also a short broad sword at his
side and a round shield slung at his back. Their beards were forked and
plaited and thrust into their belts. Their caps were of iron and they were
shod with iron, and their faces were grim.
Current Iron Hills dwarven models:
--- Zitat von: Adrigabbro am 17. Aug 2015, 18:24 --- I've voted yes, but I also understand the team point of view and I gotta admit their designs are good too. However I don't like how unarmoured they are (no shield and helmet). I find it not fair: they are dwarves and they come from the msot powerful dwarven stronghold at the time of the Hobbit; thus they should be heavily armored.
Therefore, considering that the team will NOT delete their designs, I believe the best compromise is to keep the current clothes and give them a shield and a helmet.
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Agree, models look nice and they are done very good, such detail, that is reason why I mentioned earlier that situations about modeler, there is nothing that this team can't do... I must underline now that I am not for any global changes of current models, I will explain later. That description from book is only description we have about Iron Hills dwarves. Description is mainly about dwarven veterans, and we should keep that in mind. That description from book fits 99% with current look of Dwarven slaughterers. (current axes have replaced swords from book description, that is why I said 99%, anyway axes are more suitable in my opinion).
About other units Guardians, Phalanx (and archers) they have almost identical steel mail, I really don't see any problem with their armor in general. I know you are suggested about helmets and shields. With helmets I really don't see problem on current units, they have helmets, In my eyes they look good, I think they are armored heavily already. I agree also about your claim that Iron Hills are in that moment leading dwarven kingdom, but I think team have used that information in little different way. They simply make Iron Hills faction with best DPS units (That is answer on shield preposition and Ered Luin have been already faction based on heavy armour and defence in general) . I am really not for modification of current units because of their armor. In my opinion elite units are very nice and they are fitting that book description (Slaughters are fitting almost 100%, and they should, they are that elite units Dain would call/lead to that battle). Main problem now is that all 4 current Iron Hills units are looking like clones, so adding new models of helmets for different units is reasonable suggestion. But I am also for adding that BOTFA models somehow, as summoning hero ability or something similar (We also proposed integration of those models for units of new outpost for Iron Hills, Assembly Hall=other topic) That models look very nice, they should be integrated somehow...
--- Zitat von: LordDainIronfoot am 17. Aug 2015, 18:31 --- I see your point Adrigabbro! :) And I completely agree with it! :)
As I said few times some time ago the current Iron Hills Designs were great but they were great for their time when there wasnst still any kind of Movie Material or infoamration about how the Iron Hills Army looked,except the description of the 500 Veterans!Now that we have such great Materials and Concepts I think it is a time to change as it was done with Mirkwood,Lake Town,Dale,Dol Guldur,Imladris and etc... I hope you and the Team udnerstand what I mean in the right way! :) ET based the Elite Unit Slayers on the 500 Veterans from Books and they look epic and awesome and must stay at any cost,but the look of Elite Veterans shouldnt be used for the look of the whole Army when we have such great Movie Convepts thats at least my opinion! :)
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Agree about you idea. I said above, they look like clones of that Slaughterers. My suggestion is to change maybe color of beard, to add some hew helmets, etc. I will try to be objective, there is one problem. Look of armor upgrades among basic units must be same. All of them must have same ring mails as heavy armor upgrade.(As Ered Luin basic units have same heavy armor upgrade look!). For example we say that BOTFA model will be implemented as Phalanx of the Iron Hills, they already have plate armor, so this should be their heavy armor upgrade not ring mail. Other words, team should create new looks for heavy armor among different basic units, I think they won't like this. :P And already that shields and heavy plate armor would be versa their speed ability. I just want to say, best way for implementing BOTFA models (dwarven spears units), is in Dain's summoning ability. If team any time soon decide to answer to our prayers, best way would be to modify Dain's summon ability, that is my opinion. Main reason, Dain shouldn't have power to summon units from different dwarven realms as Lord of Iron Hills. This should be ability of King Dain, title King gives him that kind of power, simple Lore reasons... Second reason why team should do that is to answers to our prayers, if poll shows to be in our favour. Lord Dain should in his summon ability summons those BOTFA spearmen and Ram riders, so team will include all of those epic models and epic units!
--- Zitat von: Elite KryPtik am 17. Aug 2015, 19:16 --- I just think the elite unit should be changed to the super phalanx from the hobbit 3, they are much cooler than those slaughterers in my opinion. They could have an awesome shieldwall formation to represent the film.
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I don't agree! Simple Slaughterers should stay as elite unit, they simply fit 99,99% to that veterans description from book. About shieldwall formation, BOTFA models could have similar wall formation as Tower Guards, that is enough from my prospective. As I said above I am for implementing them in Dain's level 10 summoning ability. :)
--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 17. Aug 2015, 22:58 --- Yes, this quote of Adamin is pretty lapidary and exhaustive.
The BOTFA Iron Hills' pikes can't obviously be immediately and fully implemented in the game, lest the similarity and connection among the concepts of the units of the Iron Hills will be broken.
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Agree, main problem is that description of veterans from book. But I have suggestion. Slaughterers stays of course as elite unit, they have best equipement for war, they are described in book. Also basic Iron Hills units (Guardinas, Phalanx, Archers) have same armour upgrade look, a lot of similarities with Slaughterere's equipement. Main concept won't be broken if team add those BOTFA models as summoned units from Dain's level 10 ability. Those units will have difference in comparison with current concept, but they could be temporary or permanent and limited in number of summoning attempts (for example Dain could use this ability once or twice.)
--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 17. Aug 2015, 22:58 --- But I also like very much that concept, among the many abominations of the Hobbit trilogy; I thus sincerely think that it would be worthy to be somehow included, as all the other worthy concepts from the Hobbit trilogy (Thranduil's silver armour, Mirkwood's general concept, Lord Dáin's concept, Thorin's royal armour,...) have been rightly implemented :)
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Me too, concept is beautiful. Also team integrated as you noticed a lot of concepts from movies in general, and they block those models. It is unfair a bit from that perspective. :(
--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 17. Aug 2015, 22:58 --- I think, to portrait, with also the display of the Ram Riders and the Ballistas 8-)
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I suggested idea about Rams, but about Balistas suggestions are in Earhshaker topic and in Drar change topic. :) Can't write those ideas again. :D
--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 17. Aug 2015, 22:58 --- I'm sure there can be many ways they could 'experiment' with this concept.
What if, as someone surely has already suggested, Dáin were able to summon, with his level 10 ability, the BOTFA Iron Hills' pikes as his personal Royal Guard?
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I laughed so hard. :D Because I wrote this comment in parts while I was reading all previous comments at the same time in their posting order. :) I suggested that summon ability few times above, and now you are suggesting same. It is nice we share opinion. :D
--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 17. Aug 2015, 22:58 --- These units have a similar armour to the one of Dáin (similar design to the general aspects of Dáin's armour) and thus would be suitable to be regarded as his personal Defence; furthermore, I generally like very much the idea of Royal Guards for Kings and Queens, as it significantly widens the role of Leaders, and shows their Majesty on the battlefield ;)
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AGREE! :D
Like Khazad dum Veterans say: "For your Majesty!"
Cheers, people! :D 8-)
bookworm1138:
i don't mind the design of the BotFA Iron Hills army, and i think, as the Khazad-dum Veterans, this works just fine.
the only problem i have is that that design is, on a large scale (as would happen with every IH Dwarf having that look) very bland: you can never see their beards in the movie and they all look exactly alike (so the animation departments didn't have to create hundreds of unique CGI beards?). i like that there is an aspect of the books in the Edain mod currently, where Iron Hills units have the forked beards tucked into their belts. This makes them more unique than any other Dwarven faction aesthetically, and i would hate to see that removed (there were no beards tucked into belts in The Hobbit movie as i recalled and many Dwarves didn't even have proper beards).
LordDainIronfoot:
Actually I saw their beards and they were cool and most of them even had Iron Pieces Ornaments on their beards!:) And while I like the long forked beards ,those beards are descrbed in the books for the Veterans something which represents that they are old,wise and experienced something that should be only wirh them! :-) So I don't think that it is appropriate for the whole Iron Hills Army tp have those long beards! :-)
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