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Discussion About 4.1.2

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Elite KryPtik:
Hey everyone, thought I would go ahead and make this thread for people to post what they do and do not like about the latest patch, 4.1.2. Personally, I think the change to the resource system is kind of unnecessary, but more importantly it completely ruins a couple of factions early games. Isengard, Gondor and to a lesser extent, Dwarves are now so weak early game its actually funny. Rohan Peasant spam can completely shut down and kill Isengard, and prevent Gondor from gaining any map control at all. Same for Mordor orc spam, and its even worse against them because orcs are free.

The changes to trampling synergize with the changes to economy buildings for Rohan, making cavalry pointless in comparison with the effectiveness of peasant spam, which really frustrates me as Rohan is supposed to be a cavalry faction. Something should be done about this, although I don't know what can be done without making Rohan cavalry OP.

I haven't played too much of the patch yet so that's all I will post for now, but I think that this patch has actually worsened, not improved, the balance overall :(
Please remember that these are just my opinions, although they are backed up by the fact I play online quite a bit. Post the things you do and don't like about the patch as you discover them here :)

bookworm1138:
i wanted to play against the Dwarves, and now i have. totally satisfied with that

as far as Rohan goes, i feel that peasants should be nerfed a little. also having to shell out 1000 resources just for two resource gathering buildings in my fortress (ie Furnace, Mineshaft, Tribute Camp, House, Stud Farm, etc.) is a bit much, and i'm not 100% on-board with that.

Adrigabbro:
Haven't tried competitively the new version, but from what I've seen the inner buildings really DO produce a lot of money. I believe you're a bit overreacting when you say there is no balance anymore.  ;)
Additionally, peasants have been weakened by a lot, wouldn't it make up for Rohan harassment potential?

That's no criticism, keep that in mind. But I would like to play some 1v1 with you if you will. I don't mean to judge your skill or mine, I only want to see how all those changes will really impact the game and you seem very well aware of balance matters and strategy.  :)

Elite KryPtik:

--- Zitat von: Adrigabbro am 19. Aug 2015, 23:17 ---Haven't tried competitively the new version, but from what I've seen the inner buildings really DO produce a lot of money. I believe you're a bit overreacting when you say there is no balance anymore.  ;)
Additionally, peasants have been weakened by a lot, wouldn't it make up for Rohan harassment potential?

That's no criticism, keep that in mind. But I would like to play some 1v1 with you if you will. I don't mean to judge your skill or mine, I only want to see how all those changes will really impact the game and you seem very well aware of balance matters and strategy.  :)

--- Ende Zitat ---

I would be happy to 1v1 you any time :)
I'm E_KryPtik on Gameranger, and Elite KryPtik on Tunngle.

I didn't say there was "no balance" I said that I thought the balance has been worsened. Isengard's early game is really super weak now, and your only option against a skilled Rohan is to get lumber mills and rush Bill Ferny to level 10, to get enough resources to maybe just barely survive. Gondor has gates, so they are harder to kill, but complete lack of map control is a nasty thing.

Elite KryPtik:
I'm sorry for the double post, but this belongs in its own post, because it includes a replay.

After playing some more, I have come to a couple more conclusions. If you are Rohan and are up against Isengard, Gondor or Dwarves, making cavalry is now illogical and inefficient. So this update is a double edged sword, against Rohan and Mordor, your cavalry now dominate, but against any of the other 3 all you can do is spam peasants. Me and my friend just finished doing some extensive testing to see how good the new trample is, with me as Rohan and him as Gondor. Its safe to say any half decent pikes will now instantly kill cavalry. I'll attach the replay below, its very long and includes a lot of testing of what kinds of damage gets inflicted by trampling and damage cavalry receives from trampling.

It also includes a huge battle towards the end, which sticks to the same rules as a skirmish would, even though we were on epic battle mode. We both had 1800 command points worth of troops, who were all fully upgraded and most were max level, and we fought each-other. He slaughtered my entire army and only lost around 3 battalions, showing how weak Rohan melee is late game. However, I then made a huge army of Rohirrim archers, and killed his entire army. The last thing in the replay is a gigantic double siege of both of our bases at once, where I demonstrate just how weak Rohans siege warfare is in both defence and attack. It takes around 30 Onagers to breach Gondors walls, and when he sends bombardment ships to destroy my base there is nothing I can do about it, because Rohan has no wall mounted catapults. A lot of great showcases of things I've been saying on the forums for some time in this replay, I hope the team will find the time to watch it, long as it is :)

1 final note, Rohan needs some kind of a scout power, they are the only faction to not have this and it hurts them pretty badly late game.

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