Changes for Royal Guard and Archers, Poll

[Elite KryPtik]

Here is a relatively simple idea. Rohan currently only has 1 recruitable heroic unit, the Royal Guard, and 1 other heroic unit that can be summoned, the Royal Archer. I think it would be very intuitive to merge both of these units into 1 through a mount/dismount function, similarly to the Black Riders, and increase the unit limit to 6. Most other factions have at least 2 recruitable heroic units, totaling 6 battalions, so Rohan is at a disadvantage with only 3.

For their abilities, they would keep their passive Guardians of Rohan ability regardless of whether or not they are mounted, and while mounted would have For Death and Glory, and while dismounted would have their weapon switch between bow and sword. This would make them very flexible and useful, and give Rohan both heroic cavalry and infantry, so that whatever style they picked, either infantry or cavalry play, they would have a strong unit to rely on.

Finally, I want to make a simple request that if you vote no, please post your reasoning why, because I think this is a pretty fair and reasonable idea. Thanks for reading

[Tienety]

Great idea. But I think that Rohan should have only 3 battalions of Royal Guard.
He has also three captains with westfall units as second heroic/elite units.

[Elite KryPtik]

Heroic units have 3600 HP, the captains of the westfold are significantly weaker then this, and if anything can be classified as Elite units.

[LordDainIronfoot]

I like the idea!It will make them even more Elite and usefull but I too think that 6 Battalions are too much I think 4 or max 5 will be enough!

[CragLord]

This would make them very flexible and useful, and give Rohan both heroic cavalry and infantry, so that whatever style they picked, either infantry or cavalry play, they would have a strong unit to rely on.

Very nice idea. With that sentence you have described idea nicely, and you got my support.

[Elite KryPtik]

I like the idea!It will make them even more Elite and usefull but I too think that 6 Battalions are too much I think 4 or max 5 will be enough!

Mordor has 6 heroic battalions
Gondor has 9 heroic battalions
Dwarves have potentially limitless heroic battalions
Isengard troops with shieldbearers and all their upgrades are essentially all heroic battalions
Why limit the Royal guard to 4 or 5? Having 6 heroic battalions is the average amount.

[™Æ¿® Aragorn £ ‡™]

The only problem with this idea is, it might make Rohan an archery faction :/.

[Elite KryPtik]

How would it do that? Rohans main archers aren't very good, also while off their horse Royal Guard would be slow and susceptible to trample.

[Gandalf The Gray]

i like the idea

[™Æ¿® Aragorn £ ‡™]

How would it do that? Rohans main archers aren't very good, also while off their horse Royal Guard would be slow and susceptible to trample.

Okay, think about it this way: if they are limited to 6, rohan can buy 6 elite archer battalions.

Now think, how many rangers would you usually buy in a game? (As gondor)

3-6?

[Elite KryPtik]

If the Rohan player had 6 Royal Guard battalions, that's 720 command points. I don't know about you, but if I had spent that much on these units, I would be very careful with them. Always using them on foot would be a big risk, easily punished by mounted heroes or basic cavalry. Also, they still do not do as much damage as Rangers that have been upgraded.

[™Æ¿® Aragorn £ ‡™]

If the Rohan player had 6 Royal Guard battalions, that's 720 command points. I don't know about you, but if I had spent that much on these units, I would be very careful with them. Always using them on foot would be a big risk, easily punished by mounted heroes or basic cavalry. Also, they still do not do as much damage as Rangers that have been upgraded.

Hey, I tottally agree with the idea, I just thought the only down of it should be put in the open. 

Also, if they do as much damage as guardians of the white company, they will do the exact same damage as rangers. (tested and 2 rangers with fire arrows = 1 guardian of the white company damage wise)

Also, if they fix the tent armory bug, and give the tent rohhirrim fire arrows/armor piercing arrows plus add this idea; I would actually think to bring Rohan online (Instead of always going Mordor/Gondor)

[LordDainIronfoot]

I like the idea!It will make them even more Elite and usefull but I too think that 6 Battalions are too much I think 4 or max 5 will be enough!

Mordor has 6 heroic battalions
Gondor has 9 heroic battalions
Dwarves have potentially limitless heroic battalions
Isengard troops with shieldbearers and all their upgrades are essentially all heroic battalions
Why limit the Royal guard to 4 or 5? Having 6 heroic battalions is the average amount.

Well as you put it this way I have to agree that having 6 Battalions will be just fine!

[Adrigabbro]

I answered no because I don't like the idea of having 6 same heroic battalions. For instance can you picture 6 battalions with bow behind your army? That's no rohan. Even though Mordor and Gondor have (way) more, that doesn't mean Rohan should get additional heroic units.
Plus, if the team is not fond of making a summon from a level 10 hero permanent in the first place, I don't think they will like this idea better.

[LordDainIronfoot]

Well then how about they just get the Dismount Ability and may be some other better ability and make them Limited to 4 since really Rohan is no Gondor nor Mordor but still there should be balance!

[Walküre]

I like very much this idea.

It would be a more valuable way to widen the role of the Rohan's Royal Guard, and focus on its high-skilled members, who would be able to evenly fight on foot or to ride a horse, as true Guardians of the Horse Lords' King 

[Elite KryPtik]

I answered no because I don't like the idea of having 6 same heroic battalions. For instance can you picture 6 battalions with bow behind your army? That's no rohan. Even though Mordor and Gondor have (way) more, that doesn't mean Rohan should get additional heroic units.
Plus, if the team is not fond of making a summon from a level 10 hero permanent in the first place, I don't think they will like this idea better.

Sorry to break it to you Adriggabro, but right now good Rohan players don't make cavalry, and for good reason. Peasant spam with archer backup is much more reliable. Giving Rohan more Royal Guards, and ones that can dismount, would actually improve Rohan's cavalry game, and make it more feasible to get cavalry. If the player wanted to dismount them and put them behind your army, again you have to remember that they would be very vulnerable to cavalry, and that they cannot get fire arrows and so don't do as much damage as other elite archers. Additionally, while on foot they don't really have a special ability besides switch weapon, whereas while mounted they DO get a special charge ability. Finally, the reason there would be 6 battalions with this idea is because its merging 2 different heroic battalions, so it would only make sense and be fair to have 6 battalions.

[Gandalf The Gray]

and rohan suppose to be the cavalry  faction with not so good the cavalry than gondor i think this is not right

[Lord of Mordor]

This wouldn't be a 'merging' of units (especially considering that Hama's guard is limited to one unit with a duration timer attached), it would simply make an existing unit much more powerful by giving it a very strong new option. And while I think this might actually be a pretty good idea for the Royal Guard, it's not a very good reason to double their recruitment limit on top of that. As others have said, Rohan is not meant to be a faction that can field six heroic infantry units.

As for comparison to other factions, Mordor actually only gets their full seven heroic units once you control two outposts and two very expensive buildings, that's quite a difference from simply getting six heroic units in your basic stables. Also note that Mordor has no upgrades and very few elite units. Gondor has more than Rohan, Isengard has less, and the Dwarves have potentially more but tied to a more complicated recruitment scheme that also needs a settlement and can this be disrupted. Lorien will also have only one heroic unit, so I don't Rohan is unfairly behind here.

I'd still like to try out a mount for the Royal Guard, but not with an increased limit.

[LordDainIronfoot]

As I said above I tihnk adding the Dismount Ability can be enough and the battalions can be 4 at Max and it will be rather fine I think!

[Elite KryPtik]

Well I was referring to the post the team made about potentially making the Royal Archers a recruitable unit, and was thinking that they could just be merged into 1 unit type rather than split up. Also, Rohan doesn't really have any elite units either, the Westfold Captains are limited to 3 battalions and Rohirrim Archers are very easily killed by other archers. Since they also only 3 heroic battalions, that makes them behind as compared to Mordor or the upcoming Lothlorien, who I'm sure will have several different elite units. Even if the limit isn't increased I guess that giving them a mount/dismount and change weapons would certainly be a lot more useful than their current form.

[ThorinIIoakenshield]

I like this idea,support it fully...but eventhough the majority overwhelmingly said yes...I do not know if the team will implement...but credit to the thought behind it

[Odysseus]

The idea is nice and the team took it into consideration according to Kryptik. I think you always need to try changes in babysteps for balance is a very fickle thing. I believe a notion of give and take to be the most efficient. Rohan's primary late-game weakness is obviously upgraded pikes, so dismounting Royal Guard will counter those upgraded Pikes pretty hard, I presume, and eventually changing the whole match-up. If that still isn't enough, the next step could be discussed and/or implemented.

[Elite KryPtik]

There is discussion about this very issue on the beta forums right now, no worries the team knows Rohans late game weakness.

[ThorinIIoakenshield]

Okay,if you say so,I trust...I really just am frustrated that a lot of brilliant ideas are pushed aside by the team,I am afraid it wil be with this one aswell,thats all

[Elite KryPtik]

Well considering this is my idea and poll, I think I would be just as concerned as you 

Seriously though, the team cannot take every single idea and put it into the game, because it is impossible to please everybody. Always remember that the team looks at everything even if they can't respond or implement all of it. Game balancing is a very fickle thing.

[Odysseus]

Do we have any update on this front?

I know the team is going to give the Royal Guard some kind of ability or formation that will make them better at withstanding (upgraded) pikes as well as giving them shields.

Is there anything that can be further shared? Would the team or a beta-tester be willing to give some information on how Rohan's late-game issues will be further tackled?

Thanks!