New unit for Isengard Early game. (+ ideas)

[Lord of Mordor]

Wildmen already steal money by default, I always thought that was a pretty useful ability.

[Caun]

Sorry,
but i cant understand the demand for a new eg-unit for isengard.
At the moment Isengard is one of the strongest, maybe the strongest, early game faction.  Only Rohan can match with isengard.
You can spam the wildmen as peasants and they are very strong in harassment.
Mordor has no chance against Isengard. The few orcs cant defend your settlements. You can even go in the base and destroy most of the buildings.

Wildmen already steal money by default, I always thought that was a pretty useful ability.

Yes, they are very useful and strong in the early game, in some match-ups even too strong.

So i dont think Isengard need a new eg-unit.

Maybe you play too passive with Isengard. Your first building on a settlement should be a wildmenhut and then you must spam wildmen and overwhelm your opponent. They only costs 150  and are recruited three times faster than peasants.

[Skeeverboy]

I think the main problem is that Mordor and Rohan are disproportionately strong at the moment.

No, this isn't the problem. I think all Factions (Dwarvens, Gondor, Mordor and Rohan) have the same strength in EG, MG and LG.
Isengard has problems in EG, but later it is the strongest LG faction. With wildmen it can easy destroy the ressourcebuildings of the enemys.

What EliteKryptik has described, being able to ignore enemy units and just keep going after their buildings is not healthy gameplay.

What he mean was just to destroy his ressorucebuildings. I think it was the aim of the patch, that harassment will promoted, or wasn't it?

[Adrigabbro]

Sorry,
but i cant understand the demand for a new eg-unit for isengard.
At the moment Isengard is one of the strongest, maybe the strongest, early game faction.  Only Rohan can match with isengard.
You can spam the wildmen as peasants and they are very strong in harassment.
Mordor has no chance against Isengard. The few orcs cant defend your settlements. You can even go in the base and destroy most of the buildings.

Wildmen already steal money by default, I always thought that was a pretty useful ability.

Yes, they are very useful and strong in the early game, in some match-ups even too strong.

So i dont think Isengard need a new eg-unit.

Maybe you play too passive with Isengard. Your first building on a settlement should be a wildmenhut and then you must spam wildmen and overwhelm your opponent. They only costs 150  and are recruited three times faster than peasants.

Glad to see someone who understands the power of Dunlendings. But I think you are exaggerating a bit: Rohan outstands them as soon as Gamling comes in, and I believe Mordor can play it equal, waiting for late game (and that ain't dumb since Mordor is as strong as Isengard late in the game).

[Caun]

If you play isengard right Mordor doesnt come in the late game
Against Rohan heroes like gamling you have a lurtz

If you want a 1on1 , i can show you the power of wildmen

[Adrigabbro]

I haven't played Mordor VS. Isengard in 4.1.2 so far, I'll trust you on that.
But I'd gladly 1v1 if you wish.   

[Elite KryPtik]

If you play isengard right Mordor doesnt come in the late game
Against Rohan heroes like gamling you have a lurtz

If you want a 1on1 , i can show you the power of wildmen

I'll 1v1 you some time once the beta is released to the public. I would dearly like to see you beat an orc spam with Widlmen spam.

[Elendils Cousin 3. Grades]

You don't need to beat an orc spam with wildmen. You just have to delay your opponent while you build your economy to get a formidable army of uruks going. That is their only purpose.

[Elite KryPtik]

Yes, but a good orc spam will be able to kill the wildmen hut, and all outer resource buildings easily, and without cost to the Mordor player. There is a key thing that people seem to be forgetting here: Wildmen cost money, orcs don't. I frequently even get inner resource buildings with my orc spam.

[Skeeverboy]

Wildmen cost money, orcs don't.

Yes, but the Wildmen steal money from Mordor, so it can't buy expensive things. And the First Wildmen cost 450 (300 for wildmen hut and 150 for first wildmen), a orkbuilding 500.
Orkspamm isn't so op how you think. Orks die very fast and have no chance again a updatet army. When you destroy Mordors orkbuilding in the EG it needs long to buy a new, and with dunlands you can do this very fast.

[™Æ¿® Aragorn £ ‡™]

Wildmen cost money, orcs don't.

Yes, but the Wildmen steal money from Mordor, so it can't buy expensive things. And the First Wildmen cost 450 (300 for wildmen hut and 150 for first wildmen), a orkbuilding 500.
Orkspamm isn't so op how you think. Orks die very fast and have no chance again a updatet army. When you destroy Mordors orkbuilding in the EG it needs long to buy a new, and with dunlands you can do this very fast.

Wow, this topic is really taking off! 39 replies.

Anyways, It may cost 500 for the orc pit, but think about how many orcs the player can get out of that.

It would still cost 500 for 20 orc hordes, while for wild men (If you use torches alot)

It would be 650 in total,for the first battalion.

1000 for the second.
And the mordor player can just build towers to counter you destroying his orc pit.

Or he can get trolls for area of effect damage (Ultimatly ruining wildmen spam).

And Isengard's early game problem lies with how expensive Uruk scouts are.

If they costed 200, and came out faster I wouldn't have a problem (I find Uruk scouts to generally be a cool unit, but most of the time in early game they're not worth using, because the more scouts you buy, the later you will see Uruk crossbows,Urukpikes. Buy 4 battalions of scouts, and you just missed out on buying machinery of war I)

I can't believe I am actually saying this, but...

Lurtz could use 1000 more health, and more damage.

3500 health, and 350 damage isn't hero killer matterial.

And ugluk could use some more damage (And some small splash)

Their heroes aren't actually good, when you think about it.
Most of their heroes have low health (lower than normal heroes)
And average damage.

What's really disturbing is Wulfgar is a better hero killer than lurtz (!)

Most of the time I catch heroes such as king dain, or Gandalf walking over and killing lurtz.

[CynasFan]

If you have only problems with the price of uruk scouts, than it could be better if scouts costs less with the mines. At the moment only normal uruks get cheaper by them, if scouts would get cheaper with them also there wouldn´t be a problem.
I think, that is the easiest way of balancing and fits with Isengards economy.
Greetings, CynasFan

[™Æ¿® Aragorn £ ‡™]

If you have only problems with the price of uruk scouts, than it could be better if scouts costs less with the mines. At the moment only normal uruks get cheaper by them, if scouts would get cheaper with them also there wouldn´t be a problem.
I think, that is the easiest way of balancing and fits with Isengards economy.
Greetings, CynasFan

Cynas, you are a genius 

[Skeeverboy]

It won't balance it, because scouts are stronger as the other start infantry.

[™Æ¿® Aragorn £ ‡™]

It won't balance it, because scouts are stronger as the other start infantry.

Dude, I have seen scouts online in mulityplayer, and they are not actually 'stronger'

Gondor players have a habit of putting their gondor soldiers in shield wall, and then massacring the scouts with archers.

The scouts are two units in one, but not until later in the game.

They cost 90 command points, but can only use their bows once you waste 1400 resources on Lurtz. (Cripple doesn't last long enough and he has a  habit of dying randomly)

You can't really count on them getting level 2 on their own, as they don't last very long once the fighting starts.

Perhaps you could add Ugluk's bonus as well once they reach level 2?
And make them level faster?

The point of making them cheaper is so you can buy them without sacrificing how fast you get late-game.