Brief General Ideas

[Halbarad]

I do agree with Necromancer and Walküre. Its a bit funny that Wargs are so extreme strong compared to trolls. Although I don't think that they are too strong. Its good that some neutral forces are not so easy to defeat.
I have some suggestions that could strength (troll) creeps:
- making them much more aggressive when being attacked and attack enemy's further away. So that they would also attack early archers like Gildor
- add a "rage mode" for trolls, when they do see enemy's for the first time in a long period, they get a boost in speed- and maybe also defense. So that tricking them with e. g. hobbit heroes gets a bit more difficult. 
- giving some of them company by some orcs? Perhaps also so they could heal themselves from time to time by eating an orc
- let them hide inside the cave sometimes and come out again when the cage is being attacked
- add mist near to some caves. This would fit very well to Barrow-wights, but could also help trolls to not being seen from far away.

[Elendils Cousin 3. Grades]

Wargcreeps will give more xp when you kill them in 4.5 to make them a bit more worthwile. Further adjustments (especially to trolls) are possible, but they're not a priority.

[Gnomi]

Most of Halbarad's suggestions won't hep, aren't possible or make it even worse, even though they are well-meant. Mostly it will worsen trolls even more.^^

- making them much more aggressive when being attacked and attack enemy's further away. So that they would also attack early archers like Gildor

This will cause more problems.
1.) You can use one bat to lure them further away and the rest of your soldiers will easily destroy the building.
2. Also it will be way easier for units to run circles, while other units attack the troll, as you have more room to run around.

- add a "rage mode" for trolls, when they do see enemy's for the first time in a long period, they get a boost in speed- and maybe also defense. So that tricking them with e. g. hobbit heroes gets a bit more difficult. 

Afaik they already have a similar mode - if they attack units, they will start running.  (long period is not possible, but running, if they focus another unit is possible and I think they already have it. At least trolls in the normal game had it)

- giving some of them company by some orcs? Perhaps also so they could heal themselves from time to time by eating an orc

I don't know if it is possible for the trolls to eat orcs. Also I personally don't like the idea of having basically two lairs in one (orc+trolls). Also it caused a lot of problems in the past if troll camps had more than one unit. Quite often trolls bugged in the lair and never left it. THis would obviously make it weaker.^^

- let them hide inside the cave sometimes and come out again when the cage is being attacked

Not possible without bugs. We could use the system of the spider expansion of your castle in Bfme II... But trolls could still be attacked there and they would have a ton of animation bugs. The spiders in Bfme II also have them... they are just so small that you don't see them.

- add mist near to some caves. This would fit very well to Barrow-wights, but could also help trolls to not being seen from far away.

Here my main problem is that it would just look wrong for me. Why should troll lairs cause such a mist? For me it would seem forced and you could still attack with archers and another bat and kill it this way.

Note: I don't say that I am happy with the trolle. I think we need to change things about it... but those changes wouldn't help much.

[Smeargollum]

Hello together!

I just want to add my thoughts about the topic troll-creeps (and maybe even creeps in general)!
I can understand your reasons for the suggestion you made Necro because it can be a bit strange that trolls are so easy to creep (with good micro even with only one sword batt  ) even though they give the most money (dragons not included).
But for me that is not necessarily a bad thing because it can bring a very nice dynamic to the game and the process of creeping. So not every creep is the same (the strength of the creep is not tied to the money you get from it).
So Orc and Wildmen creeps just level your units, give you some nice money and proteced a farm so you need some time to grap it (spiders are more or less the same imo). Warg creeps don't give you much xp and also not as much money as they could give for their strength, so they just delay your expansion.
But now trolls are pretty easy to creep and give you a lot of money (therefor don't protect a farm in the most cases --> you can't build an outside eco-building after creeping it). So all over it is much money for less effort and that makes it for me diffrent to all the other creeps and that is intresting 
That brings the dynamic that the other player will try to harras you while creeping the troll so you can't get this "free" money boost. And so on high level pvp games it is not seldom that it comes to "troll battels" in which both players try to steal the money of the troll the other player already creeped. So it is actually not that easy to get all the troll money for your own.

In a short form: I like it that not every creep is the same and so trolls give more money for less effort. That brings a dynamic in the game which is very nice to have in a game in my opinion. So I don't see a necessity to change this 

I wrote this form the perspectiv of a pvp player so I can't say how it is in the sigle player.
I hope you can understand my german english 

Best regards Smeargollum

[Max_Power]

Hi!! Concerning warg and troll creeps: Trolls are quite good in my opinion, for the reasons Smeargollum commented above. Choosing between a bigger money boost (short term benefit) compared to a smaller one and a farm (long term benefit) it's interesting decision from a gameplay point of view. Also, the amount of units needed to creep the troll is flexible, allowing for more decisions (in pvp strictly). For example, I might find more efficient to creep the troll with scout plus one pike, and use other two swords to creep one wildman each. However, if my enemy scouts it, he can come with two sword battalions and deny my troll creep. So I need to take risky decisions, scout, react, etc. All this makes for very nice, dynamic early game.
About the wargs, it's a little different. In first place, I don't find them so difficult to creep, they take same micro than creeping a troll. They usually unlock a farm so they fall into the "long term benefit" category (for me). Also, most are easily avoidable and you don't necessarly need to creep them. However, if some situation requires a "slower" map advance (for example, dwarves benefit from closer mines and more map control in less distance), wargs can be creeped the same. The only issue I currently have with wargs is maybe too small experience reward: one sword battalion will level up from one or two wildman/orc creeps, one pike will level up from one troll creep, so maybe pikeman could be lvl 2 after a couple wargs creeped or something like that. Also, maybe the range is a bit high: once agroed, wargs chase you long distances at high speed, and sometimes heavily punishes getting near them... this depends a lot on the map as well. Considering they one-hit most infantry unit, I consider a bit annoying (without further reason) that this happens. I can be ok though if it has a determined purpose (like unlocking a more direct harassing path for your troops).
Of course, I am talking from a purely pvp point of view, and warg creeps usually annoy me 
Best regards,
MemePower MaxPower

[Seleukos I.]

Hello,
I pretty much agree with both of you, Smeargollum and MaxPower
I'm fine with how trolls are right now gameplaywise, but I understand those who don't like them because of "lore-reasons". For wargs I like that they will give more exp, that should make them fine.
If they feel too good/easy to creep for you MaxPower, what about adding a third warg? This would underline the more long-term benefit you get from warg creeps (compared to the short term money boost of trolls).

But in general I'm fine with the role of creeps right now, there is no Need for any big changes (apart from the exp-buff for wargs and Maybe a third warg, but that's just an idea).

Best regardes,
Seleukos I.

[Gnomi]

If they feel too good/easy to creep for you MaxPower, what about adding a third warg

Causes quite often the same problem which I named above for trolls: the third warg just gets stuck in the building and never gets out.

[The_Necromancer0]

Is that the same issue as for the wildmen? They often have most of their axe throwers stuck in the middle of the hut.

[Max_Power]

I don't think warg creeps are too easy to creep, they annoy me a lot, but with some care and micro it's doable (except with thrallmasters  .
2 wargs are fine for me 

[The_Necromancer0]

Units that deal poison damage should have it mentioned in either a tooltip or a fake leadership.  Currently most units/heroes that deal poison damage don't mention anything in their description, tooltip, or abilities, usually the best way to tell is to get them to attack, but some of them also don't apply the usual green FX such as Khamul. Most spider units apply poison but none of them mention it, I believe only the Dol Guldur units and Gorbag have it specifically stated.

[dgsgomes]

Castle Gate Drawing Machine

[SPOILER ALERT - VIKINGS]

Is it possible to make a feature similar to this one to work in game (starts at 1:05):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBy-IMBB-Ug

Contrary to the one in the video, I thought of having the pulley/sheave that allows the Castle gates in Edain to open and close in a drawing machine in the Castle ground next to one of the gate walls instead of over the gate (as it is now); this drawing machine could be damaged by enemy troops - if it's health goes down to 0, the gate would automatically open and stay opened for 30 seconds, until it repairs itself again automatically and the defending player is able to control the gate, being able to close it.

This suggestion has an idea similar to the feedback I gave about 4.5 - alternative ways of sieging, including siege ladders, siege towers and tunnel digging (MM), should receive more potential to increase the dinamicity of sieging in Edain; troops invading the Castle could quickly rush to the drawing machine to open a way for the waiting army outside to invade the Castle
Obs: Shelob's tunnel should normally not work to enter the Castle, as this would probably be game-breaking

Would such a feature be possible?

Thanks for the attention 

[FG15]

The pulley is part of the door and therefore, it isn't possible to attack it independantly.
The only thing possible would be an additional building that would fire a weapon death, which would apen the door. But I'm not sure if the opendoor weapons still work with the BfME1 building system.

[Halbarad]

I'm also for such things, so it would be nice if it could be possible. I always thought about a flag to capture, like you have it at shipping docks, but I'm not a 100% sure if it would work to implement such a "neutral" obejct. So a drawing machine would be also nice and would work pretty similar.

A few things:
1. I would suggest that it should be only possible to destroy it when from above the gate. Seems more logical to me and players would benifit more from ladders and siege towers. At the same time, Player shouldn't be able to destroy it from the outside with catapults and arrows. Also Denethor should'nt probably be able to target it.
2. How do you expect the player from the inside to repair it? High price, low repair time? Both middle? Should the defending player be able to repair it, even if he has no defending troops inside his fortress (maybe only defending towers which could shoot the enemy troops above the gate, so he does'nt instantly destroy it again)? Or should the drawing machine repair itself automaticly after some time?

[dgsgomes]

1. I would suggest that it should be only possible to destroy it when from above the gate. Seems more logical to me and players would benifit more from ladders and siege towers. At the same time, Player shouldn't be able to destroy it from the outside with catapults and arrows. Also Denethor should'nt probably be able to target it.
2. How do you expect the player from the inside to repair it? High price, low repair time? Both middle? Should the defending player be able to repair it, even if he has no defending troops inside his fortress (maybe only defending towers which could shoot the enemy troops above the gate, so he does'nt instantly destroy it again)? Or should the drawing machine repair itself automaticly after some time?

1. It is a possibility, even though I think that for the defender reaching the raiders in time will be pretty difficult if the machine is above the gate, as the defender melee units normally have no reason to be over the walls - but this difficulty to defend may be a good thing, as the defender will need to antecipate this possibility

2. I was thinking about it repairing itself automatically after 30 seconds of being completely damaged, but alternatives are possible (taking into account also the limitations stated by FG15). Also, I 100% agree that this drawing machine has to be in a protected spot.

[GildorInglorion]

About the sound replacement, you can use the sounds from War of the Ring(2003). You already use the sound of Beornings, Dwarf Shieldbreakers, Gimli, Rohan Riders and Gondor Swordsmen from that game but there are more potential. You can use Elven Archer's sound for Sentinels of Caras Galadhon, Elven Lightbearer's sound for Imladris Lore Masters, Saleme's sound for the archer hero(can't remember her name) in Angmar, Boromir's or Faramir's sound for Beregond and Elven Warden's sound for Gildor.