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Autor Thema: Saruman  (Gelesen 6149 mal)

Odysseus

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #30 am: 28. Okt 2015, 12:56 »
This is unfortunately not the case. Gandalf's Word of Power only insta-kills unupgraded regular infantry, that's one of the reasons why Edain is currently testing 20% less health on units. Furthermore, there might not be a seemingly direct advantage with the Thunderbolt over the Fireball, but you shouldn't forget that Saruman gets all these abilities together and that makes him perhaps one of the strongest mass slayers in the game since they do not share cooldown and they all add up in the long run.

However, I personally wouldn't mind making the Thunderbolt a bit more powerful or let it have more range. By the time you actually see the Thunderbolt, it has often already lost its impact.

We should wait to see what the team says about this.

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Mr.Todd

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #31 am: 11. Mär 2018, 17:47 »
Hello, I have some suggestions about Saruman's latest ability.
As you may know, his final ability, "Thunderbolt" is far less powerful than Gandalf's Word of Power" ability. The lightning spell is very powerful but has a small radius and is not worthy of a level 10.
I propose to improve it slightly in different ways:

Heroes struck by the spell lose -25 armor for 30 sec, the surviving units lose -50 armor for 30 seconds. The spell could also be more usefull against structures: the hitten building loses -25 armor for 30 seconds. These are minor changes but I think this spell is too weak at the moment.

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #32 am: 11. Mär 2018, 19:43 »
While it may not have the gigantic radius of Gandalf's Word of Power, Saruman's Thunderbolt does a lot more damage. And by a lot, I actually mean a lot - it is four times as powerful(!) without a dropoff, meaning that you oneshot pretty much everything you hit, it does huge damage even to heroes. You can also cast it from range so your enemy can't anticipate it and split his units accordingly. I'd say it's in a pretty good spot right now.

Mr.Todd

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #33 am: 11. Mär 2018, 21:18 »
Gandalf's word of power is much more powerful for several reasons: It can kill dozens of units, it can hurt flying units, the spell is practically impossible to dodge.
In addition the spell dammage will be increased further in the next patch, + 100 magic damage for Gandalf the White if I remember correctly.
Saruman won't have any spells bonuses in the next version. The lightning spell is actually very powerful but this huge amount of dammage is not necessary to kill basic soldiers. It can be useful against heroic units but not really against heroes, only very weaks heroes with light armor such Legolas, Beregrond or Faramir will suffer big damages but tanks heroes like Dain or Boromir won't suffer so much.

It is sad because at the moment Gandalf the Grey is more stronger than Saruman the White, to be honest Word of Power should be only available for Gandalf the White, it would be more balanced IMO.
« Letzte Änderung: 11. Mär 2018, 21:25 von Mr.Todd »

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #34 am: 11. Mär 2018, 22:18 »
I never said Thunderbolt was stronger than the Word of Power, I just said it was different. The huge damage may not be necessary for basic soldiers, but if you're fighting upgraded dwarves, elite units, Imladris soldiers, Uruks, ... And if you think it's not useful against heroes, I suggest you take a closer look at it again - nearly oneshotting Galadriel is quite nice if you ask me.

Comparing two different abilities from different heroes from different factions is not a good idea for balancing heroes anyway, because it completely ignores the context of the heroes' faction and the heroes themselves as well. What if I said Saruman's Wizard Blast was stronger than Galadriels stun at level one? Is that unfair to you as well?

Walküre

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #35 am: 11. Mär 2018, 22:25 »
Gandalf's word of power is much more powerful for several reasons: It can kill dozens of units, it can hurt flying units, the spell is practically impossible to dodge.
In addition the spell dammage will be increased further in the next patch, + 100 magic damage for Gandalf the White if I remember correctly.
Saruman won't have any spells bonuses in the next version. The lightning spell is actually very powerful but this huge amount of dammage is not necessary to kill basic soldiers. It can be useful against heroic units but not really against heroes, only very weaks heroes with light armor such Legolas, Beregrond or Faramir will suffer big damages but tanks heroes like Dain or Boromir won't suffer so much.

Saruman does have a spell centred on him.

Zitat
Saruman of Many Colours: Saruman of Many Colours is a puppet of Sauron. Permanently gains +50% magic damage, -25% cool-down on all skills and +1000 life points.

Besides, I quite see the reason of your proposal. And, even though Saruman is not at all meant to be a mass-slayer hero, the storm is his ultimate ability and the final display of power of the White Wizard, concerning meteorological phenomena (the mightiest type of magic in Tolkien's writings). Thus, were the lightning storm to be enhanced, I would not have anything against it. Apart from gameplay, this is what my heart tells me.

As for Gandalf the Grey: I don't think that Word of Power could ever be done away, in any way. It is the wizard's most iconic ability from BFME1 and the feature itself was fashioned on the legendary Moria sequence.

Julio229

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #36 am: 11. Mär 2018, 22:52 »
On the Word of Power issue, I agree with Walk. The Word of Power is very much based on the Moria sequence, and at that time Gandalf was Gandalf the Grey, so it would be strange to only get it as Gandalf The White. Furthermore, you'll probably get the Gandalf The White power before Gandalf is level 10, so I don't find it an issue on itself.


OakenShield224

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #37 am: 12. Mär 2018, 17:51 »
Bear in mind that, while Gandalf and Saruman are the same price, Isengard has a much better economy than Gondor and so would be able to get Saruman earlier in the game. Also, while Gandalf has Shadowfax and his Bubble Shield, Saruman can cast all his spells from a safe distance with the Wizard's Tower and also has an AOE and knockback for his regular attack (Gandalf can only hit one enemy at a time IIRC).

Mr.Todd

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #38 am: 12. Mär 2018, 21:34 »
I don't want to insist and I understand your points of view but still, imo, word of power is much more powerful in the game than in the film. In the film it is just the movement of the staff which is similar, there is just a light and not a shock wave that destroys an entire area.
So why not propose a smaller version of the word of power for gandalf the grey, with a smaller radius? Regarding Saruman I agree, he is actually easier to buy but remains weakers than Gandalf. And the wizard tower is a nightmare to use, fireball and wizard blast are bugged and inaccurate. IMO he is more usefful on the ground.
Yes he has an area of damage but can't kill 2 enemies at the same time, he hits more slowly than Gandalf. Spells can be cast from afar but Gandalf too, his istari light is even better than the fireball. And Gandalf even has the shield bubble.
 I think if word of power had a lower radius (only for G.the grey) or if Saruman's passive spell has +100 damage on magic attacks then it would be more balanced between Saruman an Gandalf.

Dain@

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #39 am: 24. Mär 2018, 13:29 »
Hello ! In fact, Saruman is an old man and one of the powerful characters of Middle Earth, he looks rather weak. But what is the reason? After all, his ores of abilities are very good at first sight. And the answer is: Yes! but only need to finish them before the end. Here are a couple of examples and suggestions:
1) Fireball - it can be remade for attack on a single target (for example against heroes). Saruman is catastrophically very weak against the heroes because he has very weak armor, but that's the way it should be, (he's not a soldier), if you change the fireball to defeat a lone target (and increase a little damage), Saruman will get a chance to confront the heroes.
2) As for the lightning, this is done justly! which indicates its weakness. But ! Here the problem is not the damage (And it's really big!) How much in the problem of its implementation! Imagine that you want to hit a strong single target (hero, heroic detachment or super-armor gnome squad), you choose an area and want to destroy this goal, but you do not succeed for one reason: enemies move and you have a fixed area and even with insane small area. But not everything is so bad and the way out of the situation is very simple: You can make the realization of this ability different: the damage and the area of ​​defeat remain the same, but now you just choose the target and the lightning will hit it regardless of its movement, that's the solution to this problem.
3) If Gаndalf has a magic shield (and most point to the fact that he has it from BFME 2), then why is he not at Saruman because he was at level 10, he too was ???. The solution: when the ability from the book of spells "Saruman of many colors" is revealed, Saruman also receives a magical shield (how often he will be activated this is already a matter of balance)
And in the end, just a remark: Saruman is known in Middle-earth as a character who owns an exclusive weapon - the power of speech and oratorists, through which he performed miracles (stupefying, doubting and quarreling, convincing, leading into despair, strengthening his spirit and will and many other joys for mental rape of the enemy), but for some reason the Sauron's Mouth has more opportunities for this kind of action.
So if you take into account these proposals, then you can with minimal effort and without changing his current abilities to achieve his wallow power, which befits the head of the Istaris!

OakenShield224

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #40 am: 24. Mär 2018, 19:41 »
These are interesting suggestions especially the lightning one. One thing I've noticed about the Lightning ability recently is that it deals massive damage where the lightning hits, but all units in a radius around that area are knocked down (which could be just as dangerous in the right hands).

Regarding the Fireball ability, I think the issue is that Saruman is currently a mass slayer, unit interferer (with his Wormtongue ability) and a unit supported (with his Experience power). Giving him a hero killer ability might give him too many roles (which can lead to Brokenshield territory). Someone better at balancing might be able to confirm or deny that properly though.

Gandalf has the Shield Bubble because it is an iconic part of the Bridge of Khazad Dum scene. He would've needed a defensive ability a lot more since he spends his time wandering Middle Earth and encountering the various dangers. Saruman doesn't really have any similar abilities in the books or films. The closest would be his attacks at Dol Guldur in the Hobbit Trilogy which can be represented by his AOE.