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Autor Thema: Saruman  (Gelesen 23532 mal)

Gandalf7000

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #45 am: 27. Mär 2019, 23:17 »
I'm here to propose a little graphical improvements/changes for Saruman's ailities.

First the ability Power of the Speech i think it could use a better picture (not the cartoonish one from the base game). This below is a his staff from the movie and couple of other pics i seemed worthy for this ability:

And for the ability Wormtongue - i propose to rename this to Ensnaring Voice and change the picture to something like this:

Your thoughts?

Only True Witchking

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #46 am: 27. Mär 2019, 23:48 »
I think it'd be a nice touch to change the Name of Wormtongue, since there is of course already another Wormtongue we all know.

For the Pictures however, I'd say switching it around would be better: The first picture should go to "Ensnaring Voice"/"Wormtongue" and the last Picture fits better to "Power of the speech" as it is a Picture from Sarumans speech.
“In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl. A great black shape against the fires beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face."

Gandalf7000

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #47 am: 28. Mär 2019, 15:00 »
I think it'd be a nice touch to change the Name of Wormtongue, since there is of course already another Wormtongue we all know.

For the Pictures however, I'd say switching it around would be better: The first picture should go to "Ensnaring Voice"/"Wormtongue" and the last Picture fits better to "Power of the speech" as it is a Picture from Sarumans speech.
I agree to switch these ones around. As i've been pointed out in Discord, the Ensnaring Voice should use picture of saruman being friendly, needing to have peace as in the extended scene of RotK. I'll try to find a suitable one and cut it and see what's of it.

EDIT.

So I've managed to crop some of possible pictures. First three are the possible candidates, just there is a minor difference in sarumans facial expressions:

Well and the third one is rather tricky, cause it's from the scene where saruman asks "Are you here for information? I have some for you!" So it's not like pleading but still i found this image one of the suitable ones (this really shows the "Wormtongue"like smile):
« Letzte Änderung: 28. Mär 2019, 15:42 von Gandalf7000 »

AmosVogel

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #48 am: 31. Mär 2019, 18:58 »
It agree, Saruman didnt need Grima to convince or decieve the minds of its foes.

All those four images of him been charismatic and benevolent are cool, Saruman could access a special palantir  only for his voice.

And yes, i know mouth of sauron would be very similar, but we all fans can imagine what voice powers we can give to him.

Here are some ideas:

http://i64.tinypic.com/6izfd2.png
So you have come here for information? : All the enemy units and heroes loose their sight for a short time.
----
http://i67.tinypic.com/zx0brl.png
Cannot we take councel together? : Saruman uses his most mellow voice against his foes. Saruman does not recieve any damage for a medium time.
----
http://i64.tinypic.com/6sfcj6.png
You have fought many wars and slain many men: The selected enemy heroe becomes hostile towards his allies for a short time.

This could be a very interesting upgrade to Saruman.

Also i noticed that all the Istari, save Saruman got their respective titles. Hope it can be fixed!

Greetings ^^
« Letzte Änderung: 31. Mär 2019, 19:03 von AmosVogel »
"Viva México"

Gandalf7000

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #49 am: 31. Mär 2019, 19:43 »
It agree, Saruman didnt need Grima to convince or decieve the minds of its foes.

All those four images of him been charismatic and benevolent are cool, Saruman could access a special palantir  only for his voice.

And yes, i know mouth of sauron would be very similar, but we all fans can imagine what voice powers we can give to him.

Here are some ideas:

http://i64.tinypic.com/6izfd2.png
So you have come here for information? : All the enemy units and heroes loose their sight for a short time.
----
http://i67.tinypic.com/zx0brl.png
Cannot we take councel together? : Saruman uses his most mellow voice against his foes. Saruman does not recieve any damage for a medium time.
----
http://i64.tinypic.com/6sfcj6.png
You have fought many wars and slain many men: The selected enemy heroe becomes hostile towards his allies for a short time.

This could be a very interesting upgrade to Saruman.

Also i noticed that all the Istari, save Saruman got their respective titles. Hope it can be fixed!

Greetings ^^
Thank you for your support. I actually like this new Voice Palantir, it would be great to see it ingame. However i doubt it will convince Edain Team cause of the aforementioned similarities between him and Mouth of Sauron, but still you have my full suppoort on this one.

Seleukos I.

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #50 am: 31. Mär 2019, 19:55 »
I think Saruman is already very strong and doesn't Need any buffs. And giving him an invunerability would be completely broken.
But there is Nothing speaking against new pictures for his abilities (even if they aren't necessariy in my opinion).

regardes
Seleukos I.

Gandalf7000

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #51 am: 31. Mär 2019, 20:14 »
I think Saruman is already very strong and doesn't Need any buffs. And giving him an invunerability would be completely broken.
But there is Nothing speaking against new pictures for his abilities (even if they aren't necessariy in my opinion).

regardes
Seleukos I.
Well, really why would Saruman need Wormtongue to ensnare his enemies? He's very good at it on his own, that's the main reason of this proposal (new picture and name of ability Wormtongue) anyways. The invulnerability would be quite useful when fleeing the battlefield, but since other Mass Slayes don't have such option i could agree that it would be unnecessary.

Seleukos I.

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #52 am: 31. Mär 2019, 20:20 »
yes, in the books/the film Saruman was very good at ensnareing his enemies, but this is a game. So we have to think About aspects like balance, making Saruman also beeing able to fullfill Grimas rol he would be too good.
And if he had this invulnerability he would be the most op hero in the game-even more op than Thorin III.^^

Gandalf7000

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #53 am: 31. Mär 2019, 20:28 »
I would agree that he would need to fulfill Grima's role IF Grima was not a controllable character, then it's correct, but now we have Grima with his own set of abilities centered on debuffing enemy heroes, so i don't think that we need a double (ish) character merge in saruman. I mean it doesn't make any sense - think about it logically: why would saruman use Grima's words if he's good at it on his own (as i said before). I'm not asking to change the ability in core, but just a visual improvement and name change. It would finally separate him from Grima which i never liked for them being merged.

Seleukos I.

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #54 am: 1. Apr 2019, 18:02 »
As I said, I'm not against changing the pictures, names or animations of sarumans abilities at all.
I just don't want theire effect to be changed^^

SP19XX

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #55 am: 3. Apr 2019, 18:49 »
I think Saruman is already very strong and doesn't Need any buffs. And giving him an invunerability would be completely broken.
But there is Nothing speaking against new pictures for his abilities (even if they aren't necessariy in my opinion).

regardes
Seleukos I.
Well, really why would Saruman need Wormtongue to ensnare his enemies? He's very good at it on his own, that's the main reason of this proposal (new picture and name of ability Wormtongue) anyways. The invulnerability would be quite useful when fleeing the battlefield, but since other Mass Slayes don't have such option i could agree that it would be unnecessary.
With this in mind, the other mass slayers do actually have an option;
Gandalf: Mount & Shield
Elrond: Mount
Legolas: Ranged thus can escape earlier.
Eomer: Mount
Gimli: Leap & Self Speed Up
Dwalin: Self Speed Up
Drar: Ranged
Mollok: Leap
Witch King & Dark Marshall: Mount
Zaphragor: Self Speed Up
Helegwen: Self Speed Up & Enemy Slow

This leaves Saruman & Murin as the only ones that could be considered as mass slayers as the only ones without some means of escape move, so it wouldn't be out of place. With Murin it fits in with the theme of the Iron Hills to buckle down and outlast enemies (which his other abilities make up for) so this wouldn't be out of place on Saruman who is alongside Gandalf the more expensive of the Mass Slayers.

Gandalf7000

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #56 am: 3. Apr 2019, 19:09 »
Indeed. And the time of invulnerability doesn't have to be that long, i think 5-7 seconds would be enough, although his Wormtongue ability could be considered as a means of retreat as he converts all enemies around him for a short time, but that's not an option against enemy heroes so i'm not against the idea.

Seleukos I.

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #57 am: 4. Apr 2019, 19:44 »
Even an invulerability that would just last for 3 seconds would make Saruman more than op. You can just walk him into the enemy army without any risk and than use his spells.
In general I don't think Saruman needs any improvements. He is a great mass slayer and a good supporter (he can level berserkers to level 5 with ONE move).
And don't Forget, that Lurtz can cripple enemy heroes that hunt Saruman. And his standart attack does knock back to units if I recall correctly.

So I don't think Saruman needs any changes at all.

regardes
Seleukos I.

Gandalf7000

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Re: Saruman
« Antwort #58 am: 7. Apr 2019, 08:57 »
Well from that point of view it really seems that he doesn't need any buffs. But my initial proposal about the ability picture change remain open.