Lord/King Dain does he deserve a little boost!?

[LordDainIronfoot]

Hello to all!As I see this days the Forums are way too quiet amd I thought of something that we can discuss! :-)
So I was thinking that most Leaders of a Faction have Knockback and Area DMG like Arvedui,Thorin(trough Balins Runes of course) and some Heroes are not even Leaders but are known for their great physical strength and fighting style like Boromir ! :-)

So my point is that Dain is a Leader of its Factions and is a Dwarf(which are much more powerful physically than Humans) and is an Heir Of Durin is probably even stronger than most Dwarves especially as Lord Dain when he is in his prime!And as one of the Greatest Dwarven Warriors ever and especially during.the Third Age I think he should get some Knockback and Area DMG to represent his Leadership status and Physical Strength with that Mighty War Hammer! :-)

So what do you guys think is it justified and deserved for Dain to get it but not as strong as Durin just some bonus! :-)
Greetings to all and have a great day! :-)

[Tienety]

I like this idea. If I know, Iron Hills and Erebor subfactions don't have any hero with knockback but Balin can give knockback and Area DMG for all heroes in Ered Luin.

[Odysseus]

Hmm, well Dain from the Iron Hills does have his boar, so that is a form of knockback I suppose. Although, I

[LordDainIronfoot]

Every mounted Hero has it,we are talking on foot that only leaders and characters who are noted to have great physical strength and similar fighting style! :-)

[Odysseus]

Hmm seems the forum cut off my post... I don't feel like typing it again lol

[Walküre]

So my point is that Dain is a Leader of its Factions and is a Dwarf(which are much more powerful physically than Humans) and is an Heir Of Durin is probably even stronger than most Dwarves especially as Lord Dain when he is in his prime!And as one of the Greatest Dwarven Warriors ever and especially during.the Third Age I think he should get some Knockback and Area DMG to represent his Leadership status and Physical Strength with that Mighty War Hammer! :-)

Yes, it could be a valuable addition 
He can easily 'deserve' this tool as the Leader of his faction, the lore indeed tells us that the Dwarves are obviously overall more resistant against Magic and stronger than Humans, and in BOTFA we clearly saw the display of Dáin's physical Strength in the heat of the Battle.
However, it's crucial that this hypothetical knock back effect remains very 'moderate'; 1-2 units involved, for example.

Hmm, well Dain from the Iron Hills does have his boar, so that is a form of knockback I suppose.

This is the usual 'charge' effect that most of the cavalry units and heroes' Mounts of the game has.

Every mounted Hero has it,we are talking on foot that only leaders and characters who are noted to have great physical strength and similar fighting style! :-)

Or enormous magical powers 

[Melkor Bauglir]

While it is certainly lorewise a well placed buff / change, I don't really see the purpose strictly gameplay-wise: Of course Dain is a strong warrior, but ingame he has the role of a support (both Dains), therefore at least AoE-damage isn't really at place. I could however agree or support the idea of giving him a small knockback against troups without damaging them (exactly like Boromir) because this form of knockback is practically a cc-effect which supports your own troups by disrupting the enemy. Also this would be a way of not making this feature too dominant or strong as dwarvens already have very strong heroes.
What I like however is the small balancing issue between Iron Hills, Erebor and Ered Luin as with your idea Iron Hills and Erebor would have easier access to knockback. On the other hand: This feature would propably be of better use in the hands of Thorin Stonehelm (is this his english name?), so I am not certain about your proposal, eventhough I like parts of it.

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

[LordDainIronfoot]

Yes, it could be a valuable addition 
He can easily 'deserve' this tool as the Leader of his faction, the lore indeed tells us that the Dwarves are obviously overall more resistant against Magic and stronger than Humans, and in BOTFA we clearly saw the display of Dáin's physical Strength in the heat of the Battle.
However, it's crucial that this hypothetical knock back effect remains very 'moderate'; 1-2 units involved, for example.

I agree with you my friend!The effect is well deserved and as you say we saw his Raw brute Strentgh not to mention Dwalin lifting big/huge rock which nor Human can lift with ease and Dain is may be stronger than him! BUT I do agree that his Are DMG and Knocback DMG should be with middle strentgh not too much to make him too OP but just to display his Prowess in Battle and Physical Strentgh!

While it is certainly lorewise a well placed buff / change, I don't really see the purpose strictly gameplay-wise: Of course Dain is a strong warrior, but ingame he has the role of a support (both Dains), therefore at least AoE-damage isn't really at place. I could however agree or support the idea of giving him a small knockback against troups without damaging them (exactly like Boromir) because this form of knockback is practically a cc-effect which supports your own troups by disrupting the enemy. Also this would be a way of not making this feature too dominant or strong as dwarvens already have very strong heroes.
What I like however is the small balancing issue between Iron Hills, Erebor and Ered Luin as with your idea Iron Hills and Erebor would have easier access to knockback. On the other hand: This feature would propably be of better use in the hands of Thorin Stonehelm (is this his english name?), so I am not certain about your proposal, eventhough I like parts of it.

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

Thank you for the polite and reasonable reply,I respect your opinion and the facts you stated!
Now I think Lord Dain as he is in his Prime should get Both Area and Knockback but with moderate strentgh as Walkure said,while in Erebor as King Dain is already quite old he can have only small knocback(2 units) simillar to Boromir to represent his old age,while I like the idea of his son Thorin III Stonehelm to get at least Are DMG or Konockback or both since he is in his prime by then and is supposed to be rather good Warrior probably Dwalin Level!

So basically I think a moderate Knocback and Are DMG for Lord Dain and only Knockback for King Dain OR Knockback and Are DMG for his Son Thorin III Stonehelm which as Melkor said which will good too since by then Thorin is supposed to be well versed and strong warrior!

Or enormous magical powers 

And yes my friend the Strong Magic users deserve it even more to a degree and Galadriel I hope will have too! She most ceratinly Knocbacked quite good that Guard in Dol Guldur XDXD XD

[Gandalf The Gray]

i think he should have knockback splash dmg because he has a faking war hammer
if you  swing that thing around somebody will hurt BAD

[CragLord]

Dain, you successfully broke this "dead" silence on eng part of forum! 

I would say that I like idea and there are lore reasons behind it (as Walk already described above). I must say that I am more for supportive Knocback swing with hammer. Mostly because of Dain's current role in game and that is supportive role.
Also I could say that I support this suggestion also:

So basically I think a moderate Knocback and Are DMG for Lord Dain and only Knockback for King Dain OR Knockback and Are DMG for his Son Thorin III Stonehelm which as Melkor said which will good too since by then Thorin is supposed to be well versed and strong warrior!

[LordDainIronfoot]

Thank for the support CragLord my friend ! :-)
I hope that more people will take part in the discussion and the Team too will say their opinion after we talk about it! :-)
I really think Dain deserve it and plus I hate to see the Forum so "dead"

[Walküre]

While it is certainly lorewise a well placed buff / change, I don't really see the purpose strictly gameplay-wise: Of course Dain is a strong warrior, but ingame he has the role of a support (both Dains), therefore at least AoE-damage isn't really at place. I could however agree or support the idea of giving him a small knockback against troups without damaging them (exactly like Boromir) because this form of knockback is practically a cc-effect which supports your own troups by disrupting the enemy.

Now I think Lord Dain as he is in his Prime should get Both Area and Knockback but with moderate strentgh as Walkure said,while in Erebor as King Dain is already quite old he can have only small knocback(2 units) simillar to Boromir to represent his old age,while I like the idea of his son Thorin III Stonehelm to get at least Are DMG or Konockback or both since he is in his prime by then and is supposed to be rather good Warrior probably Dwalin Level!

Given these right and valuable considerations related to the gameplay and the lore, I would say that I strongly support, then, a knock back effect with a moderate damage for Lord Dáin of the Iron Hills, with 'only' 1 unit involved (the minimum number, to avoid a possible conflict with Dáin's role as an Unit Supporter in the game).

As Dáin (our Dáin  ) rightly suggested, the old yet glorious and fierce King Dáin should have the knock back effect as well, without no damage, as an evocative reminder of his past, but still present, Strength and Iron Determination 

I really think Dain deserve it and plus I hate to see the Forum so "dead"

Let's say a bit 'sleepy'.
Our own proposals will never fade completely away 

[LordDainIronfoot]

Thanks to all who expressed their opinion about the matter both for support and against it!
I hope that before Voting you will read al lthe reason,lore wise facts and game play balance facts stated for the idea of the boost!
I think I have summorized what we have discussed and agreed on in the Poll above,so if anyone want feel free to Vote there and see what  we the Fans would like and the propose it to the Team!

Greetings to all and have a great day!

[Fine]

I kindly ask for an option in the poll for "no change", because that is what I would currently vote for.

[LordDainIronfoot]

I missed that I am sorry I will do it right now! My apologizies!

I kindly ask for an option in the poll for "no change", because that is what I would currently vote for.

But I will still try to convince you to re-think about the matter! Even if we put the Lore reasons aside,do you find it apropriate and balacned and even fair if you want that all Ered Luin Heroes can get Knockback and Area DMG plus other Boosts while Erebor and Iron Hills do not have a single Hero who has at least some Moderate Knockback not to mention Are DMG!? I just want you think about that for a second my friend!There is lore and balacne into that suggestion that I hope you will understand!

Greetings and thank you for the feeddback!

[Tienety]

I have small idea.
Maybe Iron Hills and Erebor can get small knockback for heroes with Thorin Stonehelms's Iron Determination ability. So, other subfactions will have access to knockback for all heroes, not only Ered Luin.
What do you think about this?

[KingAnarion]

I ilke the idea of Tienity but I must say that I am more for Dain to have those bonuses from the begining since they will not be OP or too strong but rather moderate with medium to low status

[LordDainIronfoot]

I think that this change will be really good to balance out the things between Ered Luin Heroes where every Hero can get Knockback and Area DMG while in Erebor and Iron Hills not a single Hero has at least one of the two!!

I really think that this change will be good from lore true reasons,game balance reasons too and after all most Fraction Leaders has at least Knockback and even some who are not leaders as I said already! :-) I really do not find ot logical for only Ered Luin to have such advantage and eve more not so logical that Boromir and Arvedui who are mighty warriors indeed but still Humans to look likr they are stronger physically than a Dwarf and a Durins Heir nonetheless! :-)

I really think it is a very reasonable and accurate change and stated why I think so! :-)

Greetings :-)

[Linhir]

I think that knockback should be limited in all subfactions, let's say... for two heroes in each one. For Ered Luin it could be Thorin and Dwalin. Thorin III and (King) Dain for Erebor and Iron Hills. In my opinion it will be more fitting than army of dwarves with knockback.

[LordDainIronfoot]

I agree on the that!The Leaders and lets say Princes or Important Lords/Captains 1-2 Heroes can have one if it apropriate for their Character based on Movies and Books!

But an Armt of Dwarves with Knockback.are you reffering to Ered Luin!?

[Linhir]

I reffered to situation when all dwarven heroes have knockback (i seen this idea here) and AI i able to recruit them all (or it was fixed already?).

[LordDainIronfoot]

Well it is kinda logical due to Dwarves being quite superior in physical strength but it will not be good for the Balance that's why I suggested that only Dain as Leader of his Factions and as Heir of Durin and one of the best Dwarven Warriors of the Third Age and all Ages over all,and his Son Thorin III is good candidate too for similar reasons! :-)
So I see your point and agree that only one or max two Heroes should have it! :-)

[Tienety]

I agree. only Thorin Oakenshield and both versions of Dain should get knockback.
But Balin will need a new effect for runes or new abilities.

[WarOfTheRingVeteran]

I have small idea.
Maybe Iron Hills and Erebor can get small knockback for heroes with Thorin Stonehelms's Iron Determination ability. So, other subfactions will have access to knockback for all heroes, not only Ered Luin.
What do you think about this?

That is a good suggestion. I like it and I agree

I also think that some of Balin's runes shouldn't be available on every hero; it looks stupid when Bilbo dashes orcs away and similar. It would also solve that "Ered Luin heroes being OP" thing. And why the hell can't Balin cast a rune on himself? He looks like a noob sorounded by heroes killing five orcs by a hit!

[LordDainIronfoot]

Well I think Balin Runes or at least the DMG Boost ones can beo nly for the Appropriate Heroes like Thorin II and Dwalin,and amy be Fili and Kili as all of those 4 are Strong and Tought wel ltrained Fighters!

As for "Iron Determination" it does sound good,but I think there may be only Dain and Thorin III and Murin should get them or may be even only Dain and Thorin III!

My point is that not all Heroes shiould get such good DMG adn Area DMG boosts but only the strongest and most skillfull fighter like Dain,Thorin II,Dwalin,Balin,Thorin III and Murin!

But I really feel that at least Dain as LEader and arguably the most Important and and Best Dwarven Warrior of the Third Age and may be all Time should get some little boost to make him even to his Cousin!

Greetings!

[Gandalf The Gray]

dain was better than thorin thorin wasnt that much of a fighter

[LordDainIronfoot]

IF yo uask me of couse Dain is better Warrior than Thorin not only cuz I like him more,it is just the truth to me,BUT the idea is based on lore and balacne and logic not on personal preferences!

And I really think that reason I have stated in my comments above show that Dain and Thorin III deserve some Area or Knockback!

Greetings!