My Rohan suggestions balance and non-balance related

[Odysseus]

Hello gents,

I have a few suggestions again. These are only points of interest. Nothing important really, but perhaps a few ideas to give some love & care to Rohan.

1. Would it possible to keep the hero icons for the Westfold heroes even when they summon a troop of faithful? I think it would be very useful and prevent some confusions.

2. Would it be possible to give the Royal Guard shields? I find it a bit strange that the heaviest Rohan unit would go to combat without shields. Also, it could have benefits, making them less susceptible to pike counter trample. If this already is the case, it would at least serve as a visual representation of that.

3. Rohan seems to have two lance models, the one peasants use and the one rohirrim use. Now Rohirrim, I think, use the lance models from the standard BFME II game. I would like to ask if you could use the lance model used by the Farmhands, Westfold spearmen, Eowyn etc and make that the standard spear, so that every unit using a spear uses that model, since it is quite more detailed and Rohan-like .

4. I believe Rohan could also use some more diversification. It would be nice to give Rohirrim, Eastfold Rohirrim, Royal Guard some variation when it comes to weaponry. A mix of swords, axes, lances since in the LOTR movies, Rohan has very diversified weaponry amongst its ranks, especially during charges. I believe it is linked to Rohan being more traditional and akin to Anglo-Saxon culture, which also had very loose rules when it came to mixing weaponry among formations.

Just a few thoughts that might give Rohan some attention and care. If I have anymore, I will post them here again.

Kind regards.

[Elite KryPtik]

Hello gents,

I have a few suggestions again. These are only points of interest. Nothing important really, but perhaps a few ideas to give some love & care to Rohan.

1. Would it possible to keep the hero icons for the Westfold heroes even when they summon a troop of faithful? I think it would be very useful and prevent some confusions.

This has already been discussed and requested by people including me, according to the team its not possible. Every unit in the battalion would appear on the hero bar.

2. Would it be possible to give the Royal Guard shields? I find it a bit strange that the heaviest Rohan unit would go to combat without shields. Also, it could have benefits, making them less susceptible to pike counter trample. If this already is the case, it would at least serve as a visual representation of that.

I don't have much input on whether to give them shields or not, although it does make a lot of sense. In terms of their pike resistance, the team has stated they will make Royal Guards able to dismount in the future, to improve their versatility and improve Rohans late game.

3. Rohan seems to have two lance models, the one peasants use and the one rohirrim use. Now Rohirrim, I think, use the lance models from the standard BFME II game. I would like to ask if you could use the lance model used by the Farmhands, Westfold spearmen, Eowyn etc and make that the standard spear, so that every unit using a spear uses that model, since it is quite more detailed and Rohan-like .

A spear's a spear dude . Seriously though, people don't have time to look at the fine details of a spear in the middle of a game, and I doubt an unnecessary cosmetic change like this really matters right now, maybe once all factions are released and balanced.

4. I believe Rohan could also use some more diversification. It would be nice to give Rohirrim, Eastfold Rohirrim, Royal Guard some variation when it comes to weaponry. A mix of swords, axes, lances since in the LOTR movies, Rohan has very diversified weaponry amongst its ranks, especially during charges. I believe it is linked to Rohan being more traditional and akin to Anglo-Saxon culture, which also had very loose rules when it came to mixing weaponry among formations.

Same as above, cosmetics aren't super important. I believe it makes sense to have the normal Rohirrim have spears, and Eastfold to have axes, based off of their roles. Eastfold are much more for melee combat thanks to their formation, while normal Riders are really only good for trampling.

Just a few thoughts that might give Rohan some attention and care. If I have anymore, I will post them here again.

Kind regards.

Keep em coming

[Odysseus]

Good sir KryPtik,

We meet again. Thank you for replying.

Good to see they will be able to dismount. I hope they will get some shields if they make use of swords, unlike the Royal Archers. I'm not saying Rohan is perfect, underperforming or overperforming, but they feel a little ''limited'' compared to (some of the) other factions. I probably have no authority whatsoever on this subject, but that's what I think. I'll keep on the suggestions of course.

Kind regards.

[Lord of Mordor]

Hey there,

most of your suggestions have already been answered, but I just wanted to add that you're quite right about the Royal Guard shields - that simply makes sense and will be added for the next version

Our current thinking is that the Guard won't  be able to dismount, but get an ability that makes them considerably more powerful against pikemen for a time. This is unique amongst all cavalry in the game and should help Rohan against an enemy who focuses on pikes, but at the same time you have to use it well and can't simply dismount whenever you want. After all, making cavalry effective against their supposed counter must be handled delicately, so we'll see how it goes.

[Odysseus]

Thanks again for the reply. I am curious to see what you guys will concoct.

[Odysseus]

It seems I posted in the wrong thread regarding the Royal Guard matter. I'll bump it here too just to be sure.

Any info willing to share thusfar?

[Fredius]

I can tell you that the Royal Guard will get shields (I don't think this info needs to be secret right? If so then please delete it @ moderator), about the pike resistance I don't know.

[Odysseus]

Good night peeps,

I had a few suggestions for Rohan concerning overall late-game performance. I would love to discuss subtle changes apart from the Royal Guard to make Rohan's late-game less one-dimensional and less frustrating in certain matchups. I divided my suggestions into two sections based on personal concern: Primary suggestions & secondary suggestions.

Without further ado, let's start with the primary suggestions:

1. Would it be possible for the Muster Camp to be able to also call upon Eastfold Rohirrim benefitting from the upgrades?
You could alternate between the two and this might give some more flexibility to the Muster Camp and the late-game matchups.

2. Could the Rohirrim General perhaps boost the level of the spawned Rohirrim by 1?
Since they cannot benefit from Banner Carriers, I thought it might be logical to beef them to Level 2 at the least if they get an attached Rohirrim General.

3. Can Hama's summon of the Royal Archers be elongated?
I find it lasts quite a short while and getting Hama to level 10 is no easy feat. I think it would be justified if the summon timer was prolonged. Another option might be to simply make the summon permanent and limit the unit to 1 on the field. However, I think the first option would be better suited for now.

Moving on to the secondary suggestions:

1. Is there any interest in giving a hero from Rohan the ability to summon Rohirrim just like Gamling can summon Peasants? I feel like Rohan plays like the summon faction of the Good factions, just like how Angmar was the Summon faction of the Evil faction. I think either Eomer or Theoden the Cured. I think it might give some interesting alternatives, where you could start with Gamling, supporting a Peasant orientated strategy, while the other hero could promote a quicker cavalry start.

2. The Rohirrim spawned from the Muster Camp can come equipped with bows if you upgrade the camp with the corresponding tent, however I noticed that the arrows seem not to pierce heavy armour, like Rohirrim Archers do. Would it be possible to add this feature to them?

If I have anything else, I will add them to the main post. I hope you will take the time to read the suggestions and comment on how you would like to add or improve on something.

Kind regards.

[Melkor Bauglir]

2. Could the Rohirrim General perhaps boost the level of the spawned Rohirrim by 1?

This seems like a very good idea, I actually think this is a bug. The general is already leading his troops just like a normal banner carrier, therefore he kind of takes their role.

3. Can Hama's summon of the Royal Archers be elongated?

I highly doubt this will change much, but it could be a nice little buff.

I however don't really like the concept of more cavalry summons. With the Muster Camp Rohan has already an army to its disposal which is entirely summoned. Therefore this would be fairly redundant.
Also, armor piercing arrows could be an option, but fire arrows and armor piercing arrows would be too much. Largely because this would absolutely destroy the role of current rohirrim archers -why would I buy a unit I have to upgrade (without any discount) and which also takes away 120 CP, when I get the same effect for free, for a unit which only takes 90 CP and with a switch to melee? The ranged form of these rohirrim is in my opinion more of a little boost (especially as the related tent already gives forged blades) and no substitution for any cavalry unit Rohan already has. I think that Rohan's LG-problem must be dealt a layer deeper than just making the Muster Camp ridiculously powerfull.


Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

[Elite KryPtik]

Also, armor piercing arrows could be an option, but fire arrows and armor piercing arrows would be too much. Largely because this would absolutely destroy the role of current rohirrim archers -why would I buy a unit I have to upgrade (without any discount) and which also takes away 120 CP, when I get the same effect for free, for a unit which only takes 90 CP and with a switch to melee? The ranged form of these rohirrim is in my opinion more of a little boost (especially as the related tent already gives forged blades) and no substitution for any cavalry unit Rohan already has. I think that Rohan's LG-problem must be dealt a layer deeper than just making the Muster Camp ridiculously powerfull.

How would it make it ridiculously powerful? 99% of games I play, people go for Ents first, and for good reason. The Muster Camp takes a really LONG time to upgrade to its full potential, and its still very east to destroy in the grant scheme of things, all you need is a couple of rams. Giving the Rohirrim from the camp the ability to get fire arrows and armor piercing arrows would just make the camp more valuable in the eyes of players, especially since you can get the Rohirrim here for only 90 CP. This would  be extremely helpful in solving Rohan's late game issue, because you could get a big enough army of mounted cavalry to counter a huge pike spam. The only current option Rohan has is to spam Rohirrim Archers anyways, but this isn't very effective purely because they are 120 CP. Finally, this would once again fit perfectly with the theme of the Muster Camp, the place where Théoden summons his best warriors to go to war.

EDIT: Moved post in another thread here by request of moderator.

1. Would it be possible for the Muster Camp to be able to also call upon Eastfold Rohirrim benefitting from the upgrades?
You could alternate between the two and this might give some more flexibility to the Muster Camp and the late-game matchups.

Rather than doing this, it would make more sense in my view to just make the Rohirrim summoned from the camp stronger than other Rohirrim. This would add some incentive to get the muster camp instead of ents, and would also represent that these cavalry are supposed to be Théoden's best men.

2. Could the Rohirrim General perhaps boost the level of the spawned Rohirrim by 1?
Since they cannot benefit from Banner Carriers, I thought it might be logical to beef them to Level 2 at the least if they get an attached Rohirrim General.

Makes perfect sense to me, especially surprised that nobody(including myself) has thought of this until now. I guess fresh eyes really do help.

3. Can Hama's summon of the Royal Archers be elongated?
I find it lasts quite a short while and getting Hama to level 10 is no easy feat. I think it would be justified if the summon timer was prolonged. Another option might be to simply make the summon permanent and limit the unit to 1 on the field. However, I think the first option would be better suited for now.

In terms of having it be a perma-summon, that has already been discussed and(I think) decided against. I would still love to see it be a permanent summon though.

1. Is there any interest in giving a hero from Rohan the ability to summon Rohirrim just like Gamling can summon Peasants? I feel like Rohan plays like the summon faction of the Good factions, just like how Angmar was the Summon faction of the Evil faction. I think either Eomer or Theoden the Cured. I think it might give some interesting alternatives, where you could start with Gamling, supporting a Peasant orientated strategy, while the other hero could promote a quicker cavalry start.

The summon faction for good is pretty clearly Gondor
Good idea though, I would recommend having Gamling summon peasants while he's on foot and Cavalry while he's mounted.

2. The Rohirrim spawned from the Muster Camp can come equipped with bows if you upgrade the camp with the corresponding tent, however I noticed that the arrows seem not to pierce heavy armour, like Rohirrim Archers do. Would it be possible to add this feature to them?

100% agree, pretty sure I've brought this up in the past as well. Their bow switch is very weak as compared to the trainable Rohirrim Archers, they should get both fire arrows and the ability to pierce heavy armor to have them stack up with the trainable ones.

[Melkor Bauglir]

To be perfectly clear: You're probably right about increasing the ranged damage of those rohirrim. However, if you give this unit (which still costs one third less CP than normal rohirrim archers) basically the same strenghts as the normal archers, you make this unit basically useless. One reason to buy these units in the first place and taking the cost of 120 CP is their ability to pierce armor thus countering the giant LG-armies Rohan hates. IMO such a buff (both fire arrows AND piercing arrows, I'm absolutely OK with one of them!) would eradicate the purpose of rohirrim archers once the Muster Camp is in the game. Granted this will likely take a while, but I don't like features which undermine the right to exist of others.

This would add some incentive to get the muster camp instead of ents, and would also represent that these cavalry are supposed to be Théoden's best men.

Well, historically they aren't. Also they do possess a leadership, therefore normal rohirrim in their vicinity are stronger thus creating an army which thrives of the use of all rohirrim combined. Therefore I'd rather prefer a solution in which their leadership is buffed because this would incourage the use of all rohirrim. Otherwise (Muster Camp rohirrim just flat out stronger) this spell would make all other rohirrim technically useless (eventhough you'd probably buy normal rohirrim no matter what just for higher numbers in your army -yet I don't like the concept of them making the normal rohirrim obsolete).


Greetings
Melkor Bauglir