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Poll: Tauriel in Edain Patch 4.2

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Gnomi:
I've also said a couple of things concerning such arguments in the past.^^

I will point out some of them now, as they are also important for this. I know that it's quite a lot, but perhaps some of you will read it. :P
Note please that I don't say that there are no reasons agains her being only a summon, I just want to give you some things to think about. I've read a lot of reasons in this topic in favor or against her being a summon, but I think that some important considerations are missing or are only mentioned in a side note. Ealendril also pointed out some of them, I just want to get a bit more in depth about them.^^

Of course it's always possible to add more and more things to every faction. That's also what we did in the beginning of edain: We just added tons of new units and heroes for every faction.
This lead to ~10 different units in the normal gondor barracks and 3 swordmen/axemen units which all costed between 200 and 400.
It was of course funny to build them all, but new fans were a bit confused as they never new when to recruit which unit and also they were just thunderstruck by the amount of buttons when they opened the menu of the barracks.
Even long time players didn't knew when to build what and games became really frustrating sometimes, as you always thought: "Perhaps I would have won if I'ld have build the other unit"
Additionally this lead to very boring summons, as the summons were mostly normal recruitable units, just with a timer.

Then we've changed our mentality about that and started to make the game more clear for fans by putting some units/heroes in summons or give them some special requirements.
This lead to more interesting spells, as they gave you new units, you wouldn't have without them and a more fluent gameplay. The people had less different types of units to start with (therefore they knew exactly what to build) and with the time they got more and more units. So the players had time to "learn" about the units and it was easier for us to give different units different strengthes and make them more unique.

Just as an example from 3.81:
Imagine if you had been able to build the elk riders normally and you also had the possibility to summon them. The summon would be rather boring, wouldn't it? But as they weren't normally buildable, the summon was much more interesting and many players liked it.


Additionally it is easier to balance  all those things when some are in summons. You can restrict some strong units and also add more different designs. Just look at the men of the east. It would be really tricky to balance them with all the different orcs being available. Probably there would always be one superior strategy and either the orcs or the men of the east would be useless. By adding them as a spell, you don't have this  rivalry and even in multiplayer games you can have both and it's also viable to have both of them. :)


Now what does this all have to do with Tauriel?
Tauriel is not only a movie character (there are good movie characters like Lurtz^^), but she also has to have a role in the faction.
As a new hero she'ld need a new spot in the faction which isn't already covered by the other heroes, which is already difficult.
Additionally the more different heroes there are in the game, the less likely you'll see all of them in a game, as you have to spend more money on them. (which is also one of the reasons why we did not make 9 singular nazgul - how often would you really get all 9? Only after 50+ minutes in most games)
So by moving some of them into spells, you'll have the possibility to see all of them in a normal game and you don't have to decide: "Which one is better now? Legolas, Thranduil or Tauriel?", but you can just summon one of them and decide between Legolas and Thranduil (who have completely different strengthes, therefore it's more easy to decide for the player)

Additionally I wouldn't say that Tauriel has a "less important role" as a summon.
You don't always get an outpost in every game! But if you fight you'll always have the spells and can always get Tauriel. Therefore being in a summon gives her some advantages over Legolas and Thranduil.

Finally I personally think that a summon fights better to her. In the movies she was more or less the counterpart to Thranduil in the mirkwood sub-plot.
Thranduil just wanted to stay within his boarders without moving around too much. Tauriel wanted to save the whole world (I think everyone remembers the dialogue between Legolas and Tauriel).
So would it fit for her to be recruitable in the mirkwood main building? I don't think so.
Also would it fit to be always side by side with Thranduil after everything we saw in the movies? I don't think so neither.^^

Therefore I think integrating her as a summon solves those problems really good:
She still clearly has a connection to mirkwood, but you can also see that she doesn't only care about mirkwood, but also the rest of the world (therefore she's not only available when you have a mirkwood-building, but can also fight before that) and she doesn't have such a strong connection to Thranduil, as you can get her in a completely different way.
I think this shows her personality and her role in the movies in a really good way. :)

Finally one last thing about summons I always like you to remember:
Some summons would be really boring as normal heroes, which is why I like hero summons.
I always take the Balrog as an example:
I played a few mods with the Balrog as a normal recruitable hero. In the beginning it was really funny, but after some time the Balrog lost his attraction. If you compare him to other heroes, then he isn't as interesting anymore:
One ability which makes him stronger (like Aragorn's swordmaster), one ability to jump to another location, one aoe-damage ability and one ability to kill single units.
If you just look at this without him being the Balrog it sounds like an average hero.
But when you summon him, all of his abilities can be a bit stronger and suddenly all of them are really nice.
You care about him much more and you do much more with him, because he is not always available, but just for a small period of time.
Therefore it becomes much more exciting to play with him.
The same counts for other heroes - even if a hero is boring to play as a normal hero, he gets much more fascinating when you can only summon him and you're always looking forward to get the ability back. xD
Tl;dr:
A summon has following advantages:
 - easier to balance
 - fits better to her role in the movies
 - faction is more straight forwared, therefore easier for new fans to play
 - more heroes can be played more often, even when a game doesn't take 50+ minutes.
 - summoned heroes always have a special attraction, even when the abilities are more standard

Therefore it's not just the question if she'll be added or not because she's a movie character, but there is much more behind it.


Of course you can always make a submod, but usually submods are not made by the team. If you want to make such a submod for yourself: Just do it!^^

Edit:
Please note that this doesn't mean that we won't integrate her at any cost or that the team is completely against the idea. These are just some more considerations you should think about. It also doesn't mean that there are no reasons in favor of a a normal recruitment. :)

DrHouse93:
Honestly, I must say you have really good reasons (I agree on most of them) and I like the fact you seem to be one of the few who knows Lurtz is also invented by PJ (but no one ever complains about him. They just hate Tauriel with no reason). Even though I'd still prefer to have her permanent, I realize that having her as a summon is the best choice. Maybe a little compromise to make everyone happy could be rising the time the summon remains on the battlefield, and granting her the ability to switch weapons permanently, and not temporary through skill. But I'm certainly sure you'll make the best choice about it :)

Gnomi:

--- Zitat ---But I'm certainly sure you'll make the best choice about it :)
--- Ende Zitat ---

Hopefully... :D We can never be completely sure if our integration is the best or perhaps really bad.^^
I also doesn't hate Tauriel (and afaik most of the team agree on that). Tauriel for herself is a really great character and was a great counterpart to Thranduil. I just dislike the love story. She could have been a great character like Lurtz, but even then I think that a summon would fit better.^^ But in the end it's also a personal preference how much weight you put on which argument. :)

ThorinsNemesis:
Yeah, I'd also like Tauriel as a permanent hero and being able to switch weapons permanently, as for me it would be more fun to play her and Mirkwood this way. But it's your mod, and the decision is yours.

aminetude:
hi i already wrote this as suggestion, but i was told i should discuss it here in the voting poll, so here it is :

many people want tauriel as summon, and many others want her as recruitable, i myself liked her a lot, i even liked the love trianlge ( it didnt disturb me at all ), but i tought she should remain a summon for many reasons ( that i already stated in the voting poll page 1 ), anyway i frankly didnt mention another important reason, that i want the edain 4.2 patch as early as i can, and as she is now already a summon it wouldnt delay the release whilst changing her to recruitable may take more time, but now i realised that time doesnt matter, edain team are going yo give us a perfect mod, and i will wait for it all the way.
now back to my suggestion, i know tauriel wondered beyond the realm of mirkwood, disobeying thranduil, but she got a friendly relation with legolas, so i think, that maybe legolas can summon her, just as thorin summons kili and fili, and that way the people that dont like her just dont have to use legolas ability summon, whilst those who like her can get her an a non-direct hero ( but she will be permenant summon )
but in order for legolas to summon her, we must remove one of his abilities, and i remembered legolas is going to be a mass slayer, and the only less useless ability he got, is his farsight ( at level 5),  i know some may want to know the position of the enemy, but i remembered galadriel already got sight of the seer ( at level 5 too, wich reveals a permenant area of the map ), so the farsight can be replaced by tauriel summon, wich is summoned at his level to aid him.
but wait even if the edain team made this summon ability for legolas, now that ring power ( wich was summon tauriel and the border guards) must be replaced too, so i tought about the aid from rivendell, a summon with arwen and 2 dunedain rangers, it would very lore perfect that arwen comes to help her grandmother ( galadriel ) with some few dunedain rangers ( or some imladris units )
this way i think it would be good for all the fans, because always some will like her a summon whilst other won't and they will never be happy, i think this is the solution for it, if you dont want tauriel dont use legolas' ability, if you do you can get her as permenant after recruiting legolas :)
now this was just a suggestion, if you dislike it i will understand  ;)

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