[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions

Dain Ironfoot level 10 summon and Ram Riders?

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Odysseus:
Maybe some new strategic and tactical possibilities? As far as I know, there is no unit in the Dwarven faction that would have the role of Ram Riders so it at the least avoids an overlap issue. I think they can be compared to somewhat cheaper cavalry like Rohirrim or Warg Riders.

korner:

--- Zitat von: CragLord am 18. Okt 2015, 14:30 ---
--- Zitat von: korner am 18. Okt 2015, 14:26 ---If there is any unit which does not fullfill his job (by being to weak, too slow, whatever), the consequence should be to rework and improve that unit, rather then introducing another unit which makes the battlewaggon obsolete.

--- Ende Zitat ---
Yes in first place, but there is also second option which could be also good in term of refreshing game with new stuff etc. If ET never add new units instead old one, we will never have this mod. So please, we will need better argument than that.


--- Zitat ---given that dwarves were never known as people who cultivate animals in high quantity, nor have they been known as great riders, this "evolution" wouldn´t take place among them.
So the battlewaggon is still more fitting then riders among dwarves.
--- Ende Zitat ---
And that is also your personal opinion, which could also be wrong.
For instance, what is pulling those wagons?

--- Ende Zitat ---

1. I am not against never adding any new unit to the game. I just think that dwarves should not have cavalry more then the battlewaggon.
Of course this is my own opinion, not the law, and anyone else is allowed to share or to dislike my opinion.

2. is there any hint in the books for dwarves cultivating animals? I cannot remember. They are always describes as walking, not riding (the dwarves dislike their ponies very much, when they leave from Bilbo!). Even Dains army who had to rush to the lonely mountain came on foot, not riding (in the books). Why would they do, if they are in a hurry and have mounts?
I may be wrong on this matter, so if you find any proof about the different, tell me.

If you´d like to make up a comparison to the Game of Thrones universe  :D:

- the dwarves are like the Ironislanders, which hate mounts and fight on foot (ok dwarves not using ships, but hey  ;))
- Rohan is like th Dothraki who live from their horses and are therefore the best cavalry faction
just a little excurse...

CragLord:

--- Zitat von: Skeeverboy am 18. Okt 2015, 14:42 ---You guys just say that Battle Wagons are to weak, this is the only argument you all have said.
Me an Korner say that they need a buff, so it fixed the problem. So you guys must say a new argument, why the ram riders must throw in.

--- Ende Zitat ---
Skeeverboy, it is weak and it need good improvement, also it is not argument in term of ram favour. I am speaking in general, wagon stays what it is. If you start with improving same, you will never get unit like battalion of cavalry units. Simply if you buff armor or anti pike armor of wagons so they could do basically everything then you have a hell of unit. Main idea here is to add rams maybe like knocking back units with good armor and small dps, so you can charge with them and wagons stays as support unit. That is my opinion...
I was never speaking here about rams like regular cavalry unit, that would be a bit strange. I would only like them for knock back effect, which fits them in natural attributes and maybe good armor so you can use them for knock back and destroying formation of enemies. Nothing more
1. I am not against never adding any new unit to the game. I just think that dwarves should not have cavalry more then the battlewaggon.
Of course this is my own opinion, not the law, and anyone else is allowed to share or to dislike my opinion.I know I didn't write that you have said that, I have just give you general argument which concerns your previous comment and concerns this suggestion also. So I am just expecting from others to be precise, or discussion hasn't value in general.
2. is there any hint in the books for dwarves cultivating animals? I cannot remember. They are always describes as walking, not riding (the dwarves dislike their ponies very much, when they leave from Bilbo!). Even Dains army who had to rush to the lonely mountain came on foot, not riding (in the books). Why would they do, if they are in a hurry and have mounts?
I may be wrong on this matter, so if you find any proof about the different, tell me.You are not wrong. There is no lore prof, or I also don't know.
But in it is also natural to presume this. Rams and Wild boars (maybe bears aslo) are animals which correspond to dwarven kind. Correspond in natural way of living, natural environment etc.
tight etc. And I have also post this yesterday: Link
So, yes, there would be some profs.

If you´d like to make up a comparison to the Game of Thrones universe  :D:
- the dwarves are like the Ironislanders, which hate mounts and fight on foot (ok dwarves not using ships, but hey  ;))
- Rohan is like th Dothraki who live from their horses and are therefore the best cavalry faction
just a little excurse...I prefer to look this in Tolkien world. This is a bit rought comparison in my opinion. That is all.
And you compare pirates (in general, navy nation) with dwarves in term of cavalry...
And Dothrakies which are nomads with Rohan.
It is true about horses ofc. :)

P.S. Please people use spoiler buttons when you quote something, it makes discussion more legible.
Thank you.

Walküre:

--- Zitat von: korner am 18. Okt 2015, 11:18 ---not everyone wants to play with them... please keep that in mind. Not only because of balance, some people just don´t like them. If you think they are awesome this is your opinion which not everybody has to share.


--- Ende Zitat ---

That's why there is a poll, here.
To test what the majority of the English Community really thinks about this concept.
And, so far, its majority has proven to like it  :)


--- Zitat von: Fredius am 18. Okt 2015, 13:18 ---However; guys don't forget that the usage of battlewagons has been reduced to nothing since people had a more developed way to ride on horses. There is always a reason why something has ceased to exist.


--- Ende Zitat ---

I am always delighted by your comments involving the lore of the World, the actual World we live in.
Extremely conceptual and explanatory, I would say  ;)

NetoD20:

--- Zitat von: Skeeverboy am 18. Okt 2015, 14:42 ---You guys just say that Battle Wagons are to weak, this is the only argument you all have said.
Me an Korner say that they need a buff, so it fixed the problem. So you guys must say a new argument, why the ram riders must throw in.

--- Ende Zitat ---

I actually did say an argument. But when @korner quoted it, he cut it by half:


--- Zitat von: korner am 18. Okt 2015, 11:18 ---
--- Zitat ---the problem is people want to play with Ram Riders
--- Ende Zitat ---

not everyone wants to play with them... please keep that in mind. Not only because of balance, some people just don´t like them. If you think they are awesome this is your opinion which not everybody has to share.
--- Ende Zitat ---

My argument then and more clarified now is: there are people whom want Ram Riders because they like their theme and and find them awesome (never meant to imply that everyone thinks that way) and there's people who don't want them because of balance. What I said was that balance shouldn't be too much harmed by the introduction of this unit because what we are discussing is their integration in a limited manner, and that people worried about balance could be exaggerating how much these units would tip the scales in the game. Meaning: it's not that big a deal for balance, guys (at least I think). My side argument also was that, even if it harms balance a little, balance and mechanics should be flexible, and not hinder a new unique addition to the game.

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