[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions

Dain Ironfoot level 10 summon and Ram Riders?

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korner:

--- Zitat ---not hinder a new unique addition to the game.
--- Ende Zitat ---

what is exactly "unique" about a hero who summons units? There´s plenty of that in the game.

The only uniqueness is dwarves not having cavalry - and that would be lost.


--- Zitat ---it's not that big a deal for balance, guys (at least I think)
--- Ende Zitat ---

Those ram riders either have to be strong (as lvl 10 summon), which will definitely affect balance and gameplay as everyone not using them would be acting stupidly.
Or they will be weak in order to not affect the balance. But given that - what would you need them for?

The only pro argument really counting for ram riders is that some people like them/ their design.
And as every "preferation" this is a matter different feelings.

At the end the team will decide if they like those riders and if they are willing to take the effort to implement a unit which is definitely not absolutely necessary for the dwarven gameplay (the dwarves already perform pretty good in the mod) or not.

If so many people absolutely love those riders and seem to die if they´d not be implemented - why don´t you make models/ skins and whatever is necessary and provide it to the modders? Maybe they´ll implement them, when they get your support.

NetoD20:

--- Zitat ---what is exactly "unique" about a hero who summons units? There´s plenty of that in the game.
--- Ende Zitat ---

In the first place, I'm thinking of them as permanent units limited in number, as that is the winning option for the time, and what I voted for. Summon or regular, either way the Ram Riders are unique in theme, the only cavalry of rams, beast riders (be it worgs, elks, or a boar) add to the exotism of fantasy and are displays of the different cultures represented by each faction, it sets dwarves apart from other races, it gives them a trait related to the environment they live in. I like to think that uniquiness and amazing differences between factions that make Edain so great comes not only from wildly different gameplay and mechanics of each faction, but also from the different themes and motifs displayed. Second, Ram Riders would be the first and only cavalry with a kockback attack.


--- Zitat ---Those ram riders either have to be strong (as lvl 10 summon), which will definitely affect balance and gameplay as everyone not using them would be acting stupidly.
Or they will be weak in order to not affect the balance. But given that - what would you need them for?
--- Ende Zitat ---

You would need them in late game as an alternative to Battle Wagons, which are too weak. You could then say "well, just make Battle Wagons stronger!" as it has already being pointed out. But introducing Ram Riders is a better solution, because that would not only solve the wagon problem but also the popular demand for Ram Riders. Only strengthening Battle Wagons, on the other hand, would make them OP, because they already cause area damage and support units. So I believe it would be good to leave Battle Wagons the weak ""cavalry"" that they are and regale them most to support roles and create RRs as a elite late game cavalry that can properly take on the job decently.

korner:
ok elite cavalry...

are we still talking about implementing them for Iron Hills only, or for every dwarven faction?
If only Iron Hills: What would the other 2 dwarven realms get instead of the ram-riders?

Fredius:

--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 18. Okt 2015, 15:26 ---I am always delighted by your comments involving the lore of the World, the actual World we live in.
Extremely conceptual and explanatory, I would say  ;)

--- Ende Zitat ---

Thanks man, I appreciate it ;).


--- Zitat von: korner am 18. Okt 2015, 14:53 ---2. is there any hint in the books for dwarves cultivating animals? I cannot remember. They are always describes as walking, not riding (the dwarves dislike their ponies very much, when they leave from Bilbo!). Even Dains army who had to rush to the lonely mountain came on foot, not riding (in the books). Why would they do, if they are in a hurry and have mounts?
I may be wrong on this matter, so if you find any proof about the different, tell me.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Alright to most arguments I already gave an answer, so I'm not going to repeat them; but this argument I will give my full attention. First of all, Tolkien was a genius by making this excellent story; but military-wise he is pretty much an amateur to me. I'm sooo glad that Peter Jackson didn't follow the books on that matter. Do you know how the Dwarves were equipped in the Battle of the Five Armies in the book?
They came with mattocks, and a short sword with a small buckler shield. Sorry but if the Dwarves only carried those arms against Elven archers, they would have been slaughtered within minutes. They litteraly had nothing to defend themselves with, while they actually had the time to prepare themselves for the battle??

In the movies you can see that they were really prepared for battling Elves. Big shields with which they can form shieldwalls and testudo formations, cavalry and Ballistas; all of these factors are the perfect counter against superior archers. What I'm saying is that even great writers like Tolkien have flaws; and in his case he is flawed on the military aspect. So please don't use the books as a reason for military issues; they are pretty much unrealistic.

korner:

--- Zitat ---So please don't use the books as a reason for military issues;
--- Ende Zitat ---

I don´t.

Just read my comment that you quoted carefully:
I´m talking about dwarves not being known as farmers. Taming and cultivating animals as mounts needs a lot of time and work, which the dwarves (at least in my mind) rather spend on mining or forging.


Edit:

Relating to your arguent, that dwarves were in the book not properly equipped to fight elves:
I they´d carried all that weapons they have in the movies, they´d simply arrived on the battlefield some days too late. Is that clever?
They have to move very quick, therefore they carry only light armor and weapons. Nothing unlogic or unrealistic about that...

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