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Discussing Isengard features

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Gandalf The Gray:
i think the skill of fireballs of saruman that kills every unit is a bug however i think saruman is ok as he is he can be killed easily and i think with the ring he should be powerful as he is in edain mod

Melkor Bauglir:

--- Zitat ---I thought about perhaps combining incinerate and his +100% damage against buildings (I forgot the name...Rage?) into 1 ability where he equips himself with a torch increasing his damage against buildings by 100% for the duration and equipping all his wildmen permanently with torches, or temporarily with torces as well. Although, this probably needs to go in the suggestions thread.
--- Ende Zitat ---
If this means losing torches as a normal upgrade, I suggest to rethink this: The idea behind wildmen is to be cheap, fairly tech-independant raid units. If you bind the torches to Wulfgar they essentially require about 1000 (I don't know the exact price to be honest) just for getting torches at all. This would kind of contradict the reasons why torches exist in the first place, because the more time and money you invest in wildmen instead of Uruks, upgrades, heroes and other tech, the further away your LG gets which is Isengard's goal to begin with.
Also it would interestingly inspire a second problem: Torches cost 300 per purchase, Wulfgar just 1000. If you plan to keep them available for when they are relevant (meaning early in the game), this would require them to be a level 1 spell for Wulfgar. And this could very well backfire if you have so many free upgrades for your disposal.

In my opinion, torches are at a perfect place right now: They are available without any tech, making them easy to build, but pretty expensive, making them difficult to mass -especially if you consider the poor fighting value of wildmen compared to Uruks. Thus in the grand scheme of things, this upgrade is unique in being an EG-upgrade which can be used immediately, but falls of hard if the game goes on. ;)


Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

Odysseus:
Hmm yes, good points also. Although what I suggested also does have its advantages, I think.

For instance:
1. You only need to pay 1000 once and get him to level 3 for his *newly combined* rage and torch ability. After that, it is a question of keeping Wulfgar alive and you can basically negate the 300 resource cost and the research time cost for torches each time you would have researched them, which could surely provide to be useful in whatever stage of the game if you get Wulfgar to level 3.

2. It would happen in a medium to large radius instantaneously and I am pretty sure that the element of surprise and those extra units of time gained by its suddeness should provide more bursts of damage than when you can see them coming. Imagine sneaking up in an enemy base and then suddenly popping this new ability, you would have sudden torches everywhere, ready to burn the place down.

3.The addition of a Level 10 heavy armour ability will give Wildmen more of a chance to turn into full-fledged troops. I think it would be cool to make Wulfgar the complete package for Wildmen by adding that same ability there. He would be like a Forge on legs for Wildmen  :D.

4. From a more realistic perspective, Wildmen are rabble, just like orcs. They need a leader to guide them and make them more ''efficient'' in performing their role. It might actually be seen as a buff to Wulfgar. Furthermore, it makes little sense to be throwing torches at enemy units, same for regular Wildmen. You use torches to burn down structures made of wood, roofs of hay and igniting tar and oil etc. I think they should only perform their role against buildings, but I do realise that balance requires otherwise.

That said, I do agree with your points to a certain extent, although I think it would add some more tactfullness to Isengard and require to plan a bit more, instead of just spamming them with torches to deal enough damage. Isengard is already a mass-production faction and some more tactfulness and some tweaks to the economy can surely make the faction a bit more strategic to play.

Either way, that is just what I think at the moment. It might change along the line and we'll see in 4.2 how things have changed :).

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