[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Discussion and Feedback
The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Sawman:
Hello I'd just like to say that its great that your trying to fix the siege problem in this mod because right now you either get someone who spams rams/ rushes them, or sits on catapults and destroys you while you can do nothing about it. But this new siege system/ econ system is the totally wrong way to go about it
Problems/concerns I have with it
1. Siege takes less damage from arrow towers? They already basically take no damage from them in the current system why make them take less?
2. The current eco system is fine the way it is, this new system is not going to help the defending player at all it is just makes even harder to do because you either one, wont have any command points or two, you wont have any money and in the current system you can have a balance of both. This new system I feel will just ruin the gameplay and it will hurt some factions very badly and I think it should remain in its current form
Some side notes to this
1.Most people probably won't think of this at first, but the Lothlorien economy will be so stupidly good if this goes through, because everyone else is getting nerfed not to mention that they already have one of the best ecos in the current patch.
2.Factions that will suffer from this greatly are Gondor,Imladris, and Angmar
Gondor/Imladris problems: It will take you 5 minutes to just buy upgrades with this system and that doesn't seem fair to me that they suffer to this new system
Angmar: with this new system their eco will be so bad because right now it is more beneficial to put both pantry's on outer farms and full resources on your inner farms that's the best way to make money with them and now you can't do that anymore and it will hurt them really bad in the bank if this new system is added
Walküre:
--- Zitat von: Garlodur am 19. Nov 2016, 01:09 ---I believe this topic is more of a priority than adding new factions or arbitrary improvements to the playing style, so I trust the ET completely.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Your trust is well placed ;)
Yes, siege and other aspects had the priority. As we discussed together about what may be reworked in regards of the Misty Mountains and other new possible inclusions, we got to grips with the great variety of chances at stake. It is thus comprehensible why perfecting the mechanics of the game even more had to come before the release of a new faction (and what a faction!).
As I often pointed out, this will make it easier for the Edain Team and for us to debate and propose improvements concerning the last chapter of this planned journey: because we have much more time.
PythonX35:
I'd like to start by saying that I have a tremendous amount of respect for the Edain team for all the work they have done in creating this mod and making it what it is today. With that said, I would like to discuss the new economy system that they are planning on implementing, and why I believe that it will have a significantly negative impact on the balance of the game.
The massive differentiation between internal and external resource buildings accompanied by the new citadel upgrade will diminish a significant element of strategy to the game and have a significantly negative impact on balance.
With the current system you have to plan out how you want to upgrade your economy buildings to allow yourself to get the maximum benefit between resource generation, command point limit, and forward mobility. When I say forward mobility I am referring to the defensive upgrades that help create a place for you from which to defend and press forward to attack the enemy. If you play smart like I do, then the strategy for upgrading your resource buildings will change depending on the faction you are playing, the map you’re playing on, and the current status of the match. This new system will force players to spend half of their internal structures on CP and the other half on resource generation.
This will have a significantly negative impact on factions like Angmar, because currently the best system for Angmar is to go full resource generation on internal plots and full CP on external since they don’t produce as much income. However, with the new system if they want to get to full CP then they will need to have several of their internal buildings and several external buildings dedicated to CP instead of being able to dedicate all external buildings to CP. I will provide some math to help explain this better. Currently you can get to full CP as Angmar with four external resource buildings going pantry one and then three of those four going pantry two. This means that you are receiving 1200 command points from those four external resource plots. On certain maps it can be difficult to get four external resource buildings, so even if you can only get three external resource buildings providing you with 360 CP per building, you can still receive an additional 1080 CP. In the new system, even with the citadel upgrade of 600, you will still need an additional 600 CP to get to the cap. This means you will need five external resource buildings going pantry, which is extremely unrealistic in most cases, thus forcing you to then spend your valuable internal plots on CP limit. On the other hand, this system will greatly benefit a faction like Lothlorien, because they will never have to expend resources on pantry for a standard resource building. The reason for this is because they will be able to get to full CP with just one Border Guardhouse and the citadel upgrade. This allows Lothlorien to then expend everything on full resource generation.
This new system also hurts other factions like Gondor and Imladris in a different way, because the research time to get to the next tier for your resource buildings is way too long. A five minute research time prevents Gondor from even getting Banner Carriers in the earlier stages of the game.
Lastly, it makes very little sense for the higher risk buildings to only provide half the benefit in comparison to the safe and secure buildings. Why should a building that requires a greater amount of attention to defend and is at a significantly greater risk of being destroyed not be as valuable as a building that is safe and secure behind a network of defenses. It also makes absolutely zero sense for the defensive upgrade to provide the archer tower only to internal resource buildings, especially when the external settlements are the ones that need it the most, since they are at a far greater risk to be attacked.
In conclusion I think that the current system has a few flaws, but overall is a great system that does not need to be completely overhauled. This new system diminishes elements of strategy and will have a significantly negative impact on the balance of game. However, if this is the route that the Edain team continues to follow, then I will strongly suggest that the benefits provided by both internal and external resource buildings be the same.
Julio229:
--- Zitat von: PythonX35 am 19. Nov 2016, 20:07 ---I'd like to start by saying that I have a tremendous amount of respect for the Edain team for all the work they have done in creating this mod and making it what it is today. With that said, I would like to discuss the new economy system that they are planning on implementing, and why I believe that it will have a significantly negative impact on the balance of the game.
The massive differentiation between internal and external resource buildings accompanied by the new citadel upgrade will diminish a significant element of strategy to the game and have a significantly negative impact on balance.
With the current system you have to plan out how you want to upgrade your economy buildings to allow yourself to get the maximum benefit between resource generation, command point limit, and forward mobility. When I say forward mobility I am referring to the defensive upgrades that help create a place for you from which to defend and press forward to attack the enemy. If you play smart like I do, then the strategy for upgrading your resource buildings will change depending on the faction you are playing, the map you’re playing on, and the current status of the match. This new system will force players to spend half of their internal structures on CP and the other half on resource generation.
This will have a significantly negative impact on factions like Angmar, because currently the best system for Angmar is to go full resource generation on internal plots and full CP on external since they don’t produce as much income. However, with the new system if they want to get to full CP then they will need to have several of their internal buildings and several external buildings dedicated to CP instead of being able to dedicate all external buildings to CP. I will provide some math to help explain this better. Currently you can get to full CP as Angmar with four external resource buildings going pantry one and then three of those four going pantry two. This means that you are receiving 1200 command points from those four external resource plots. On certain maps it can be difficult to get four external resource buildings, so even if you can only get three external resource buildings providing you with 360 CP per building, you can still receive an additional 1080 CP. In the new system, even with the citadel upgrade of 600, you will still need an additional 600 CP to get to the cap. This means you will need five external resource buildings going pantry, which is extremely unrealistic in most cases, thus forcing you to then spend your valuable internal plots on CP limit. On the other hand, this system will greatly benefit a faction like Lothlorien, because they will never have to expend resources on pantry for a standard resource building. The reason for this is because they will be able to get to full CP with just one Border Guardhouse and the citadel upgrade. This allows Lothlorien to then expend everything on full resource generation.
This new system also hurts other factions like Gondor and Imladris in a different way, because the research time to get to the next tier for your resource buildings is way too long. A five minute research time prevents Gondor from even getting Banner Carriers in the earlier stages of the game.
Lastly, it makes very little sense for the higher risk buildings to only provide half the benefit in comparison to the safe and secure buildings. Why should a building that requires a greater amount of attention to defend and is at a significantly greater risk of being destroyed not be as valuable as a building that is safe and secure behind a network of defenses. It also makes absolutely zero sense for the defensive upgrade to provide the archer tower only to internal resource buildings, especially when the external settlements are the ones that need it the most, since they are at a far greater risk to be attacked.
In conclusion I think that the current system has a few flaws, but overall is a great system that does not need to be completely overhauled. This new system diminishes elements of strategy and will have a significantly negative impact on the balance of game. However, if this is the route that the Edain team continues to follow, then I will strongly suggest that the benefits provided by both internal and external resource buildings be the same.
--- Ende Zitat ---
+1 to all of this. I'm most concerned about the lack of defense measures on external plots, but I agree with everything you said.
I must say I really like the rest of the changes, but this economy system is something I'm not very excited about.
Elite KryPtik:
I basically mirror Sawman and Python's points, and I will add this: With the new system Mordor is going to be incredibly strong with the pantry upgrade, since they don't need anything but basic orcs early game. Additionally, this will hurt Rohan's already bad eco. Finally, I think this will lead to the same basic setup in every single game for every faction, everybody will end up getting nothing but pantry outside and nothing but production inside, since the Citadel Pantry gives you enough combined with external build plots, and maybe 1 internal building with pantry. If the main reason for making this change is to "streamline" the economy system and make it easier, its doing the exact opposite, instead making it much harder for certain factions.
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