The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback

[Walküre]

They still acknowledge the connection between Saruman and Saruron through the slightly more subtle line of "consorts with Sauron through the Palantir" or the fairly blunt "falls under the influence of Sauron." They also manage to avoid the word puppet and its connotations and thus I believe one of them strikes the compromise we need between acknowledging Saruman's agency and highlighting the subtle nature of the manipulations of the Dark Lord.

I really like the former, for it is centred on Sauron's subtle influence via the Palantír. Even though, in order to honour the very spell's title (Tolkien's own words), I would also include ''Saruman unveils his true schemes''. The final result should thus consist of ''Saruman consorts with Sauron through the Palantír and unveils his true schemes''. By means of the last sentence we can also connect with the volubility of intent which I have previously addressed.

For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colours!'

I looked then and saw that his robes, which had seemed white, were not so, but were woven of all colours, and if he moved they shimmered and changed hue so that the eye was bewildered.

I liked white better,' I said.

White!' he sneered. 'It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken.'

In which case it is no longer white,' said I. 'And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.'

From Gandalf's memories

EDIT: I just realised that the 'his' in the second sentence might be misunderstood as Sauron's own plans. Nevertheless, I guess we can play with grammar here. The description is in fact enigmatic and deceiving (the themes of our recent discussion): whose plans are being unveiled? Saruman's (independent desires) or Sauron's (his snares, as he's manoeuvring the wizard)? A quite witty of a dilemma... 

[Dain@]

I just realised that the 'his' in the second sentence might be misunderstood as Sauron's own plans. Nevertheless, I guess we can play with grammar here. The description is in fact enigmatic and deceiving (the themes of our recent discussion): whose plans are being unveiled? Saruman's (independent desires) or Sauron's (his snares, as he's manoeuvring the wizard)? A quite witty of a dilemma... 

100% Everything depends on what angle and which side to look at

By the way, during this discussion, I got a question or a remark anyhow: Saruman gets a good push for development in the form of a bonus, like Gandalf himself. And guess what is possible Galadriel and Elrond, too, can receive development bonuses. And now the question itself: what about the Necromancer  ??? With such strong oponents! Will there ever be any use from it ??? He is still weak, in terms of support one of the best, but as a hero of direct exposure weak! I hope Necromancer will also get some bonuses  ?!?

[TheDarkOne]

100% Everything depends on what angle and which side to look at

By the way, during this discussion, I got a question or a remark anyhow: Saruman gets a good push for development in the form of a bonus, like Gandalf himself. And guess what is possible Galadriel and Elrond, too, can receive development bonuses. And now the question itself: what about the Necromancer  ??? With such strong oponents! Will there ever be any use from it ??? He is still weak, in terms of support one of the best, but as a hero of direct exposure weak! I hope Necromancer will also get some bonuses  ?!?

Necromancer is a great support and a single immortal hero for a price of 1000 recourses. He may be vulnerable but only alone as any other hero. He can trap heroes and burn them to death. I only mentioned his greatest offensive fiery spells. With him being balanced and made up so perfectly there is no need to do anything with him. Also other faction leaders do not really need such a buff like Gandalf or Saruman have. Keep in mind the concept of uniqueness.

[Elendils Cousin 3. Grades]

If only there was a spell that could turn the necromancer into some sort of shapeshifting beast, who could turn into a giant werewolf or into Batman, kill pretty much every other hero in the game, summon a fortress shooting lightning bolts and create fire pillars out of thin air... if only

[Trapper]

If only there was a spell that could turn the necromancer into some sort of shapeshifting beast, who could turn into a giant werewolf or into Batman, kill pretty much every other hero in the game, summon a fortress shooting lightning bolts and create fire pillars out of thin air... if only

Working on it !!!!



In all seriousness:

Keep in mind the concept of uniqueness.

Perfect answer.

[Dain@]

100% Everything depends on what angle and which side to look at

Necromancer is a great support and a single immortal hero for a price of 1000 recourses. He may be vulnerable but only alone as any other hero. He can trap heroes and burn them to death. I only mentioned his greatest offensive fiery spells. With him being balanced and made up so perfectly there is no need to do anything with him. Also other faction leaders do not really need such a buff like Gandalf or Saruman have. Keep in mind the concept of uniqueness.

As for the support, I fully agree with you! You just did not understand correctly. Necromancer really is one of the best heroes with aspects of army support! I touched on the moment when we go direct confrontation Necromancer with one of the members of the White Council! I just wanted to clarify if I get the slightest bonus when I get the "Sauron's Deadliest Servants" ability. Yes, at level 10, at least he can compete with enemy heroes, but before that you still have to live, and if you play 2 by 2 or 3 by 3. How will you gain experience? Your comment can be right if you play 1 on 1.

[Dain@]

If only there was a spell that could turn the necromancer into some sort of shapeshifting beast, who could turn into a giant werewolf or into Batman, kill pretty much every other hero in the game, summon a fortress shooting lightning bolts and create fire pillars out of thin air... if only

And why Batman or a giant werewolf if you already have a Terminator of mass destruction ?? He alone can destroy your whole army with all your heroes (well, almost all) - you probably understand who I am !!!!
I appreciate your sarcasm but according to your descriptions in the game there is already such!
Oh, forgive me ... I still forgot about Thorin the Undying !!!

EDIT: I just wanted to ask if Necromancer statistics will improve in 4.5 (although by 20%) After all, the Necromancer only requires a better adjustment of some of his abilities. Secondly, too great a difference in power between the Necromancer and Sauron. Gorthaur and Sauron, in my opinion, also need a little adjustment of their abilities. That's what I had, not the creation of an all-powerful hero. I'm generally against the abilities of mass destruction, since the role of the army itself is diminishing.

[Walküre]

Dáin, if you wish to discuss some aspects of the Necromancer that you regard as in need of being changed for the better, there are more appropriate spaces in this forum which are apt for the case. I think we already have a couple of threads concerning Sauron. In case you were willing to propose something, you should just head there.

Personally, I say to you that I don't believe we need any overhaul of Sauron. He's widely renowned as one of the most iconic and unique heroes of the game (if not the most unique), having been granted the privilege to dispose of a sensational set of powers and smart features, thanks to which almost all relevant passages of his lore are covered by and implemented in the Edain Mod.

[Odysseus]

Sauron is the best unit in the game, hands down. Even the description of his level 10 ''Dark Will'' ability says so, so it must be true .

[Dain@]

Dáin, if you wish to discuss some aspects of the Necromancer that you regard as in need of being changed for the better, there are more appropriate spaces in this forum which are apt for the case. I think we already have a couple of threads concerning Sauron. In case you were willing to propose something, you should just head there.

Personally, I say to you that I don't believe we need any overhaul of Sauron. He's widely renowned as one of the most iconic and unique heroes of the game (if not the most unique), having been granted the privilege to dispose of a sensational set of powers and smart features, thanks to which almost all relevant passages of his lore are covered by and implemented in the Edain Mod.

I am happy to join the discussion, and I will try to present my opinion and proposal in the near future. But I'm not saying that the Necromancer / Sauron needs major repairs, only in minor subtle modifications. All a good day!

[Garlodur]

They still acknowledge the connection between Saruman and Saruron through the slightly more subtle line of "consorts with Sauron through the Palantir" or the fairly blunt "falls under the influence of Sauron." They also manage to avoid the word puppet and its connotations and thus I believe one of them strikes the compromise we need between acknowledging Saruman's agency and highlighting the subtle nature of the manipulations of the Dark Lord.

I really like the former, for it is centred on Sauron's subtle influence via the Palantír. Even though, in order to honour the very spell's title (Tolkien's own words), I would also include ''Saruman unveils his true schemes''. The final result should thus consist of ''Saruman consorts with Sauron through the Palantír and unveils his true schemes''. By means of the last sentence we can also connect with the volubility of intent which I have previously addressed.

For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colours!'

I looked then and saw that his robes, which had seemed white, were not so, but were woven of all colours, and if he moved they shimmered and changed hue so that the eye was bewildered.

I liked white better,' I said.

White!' he sneered. 'It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken.'

In which case it is no longer white,' said I. 'And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.'

From Gandalf's memories

EDIT: I just realised that the 'his' in the second sentence might be misunderstood as Sauron's own plans. Nevertheless, I guess we can play with grammar here. The description is in fact enigmatic and deceiving (the themes of our recent discussion): whose plans are being unveiled? Saruman's (independent desires) or Sauron's (his snares, as he's manoeuvring the wizard)? A quite witty of a dilemma... 

Thank you for your answers Walk, Elendil and Trapper!

Indeed the question of perspective is important in the naming and framing of the spell. In this case, being in the Isengard Spell Book I would prefer a more neutral (yet mystically implying) description rather than something describing Saruman or Sauron in an inferior position.

The inclusion of Tolkien's words would be terrific, and absolutely capturing the relation and enigma between Saruman and Sauron.

It makes me wonder about the extent of Sauron's power over Saruman: the Dark Lord definitely had Saruman as a player (rook rather than pawn I'd say) on his chessboard, but if Saruman managed to lie to the Nazgul who share Sauron's will and mind when lying about his intentions, there is undoubtedly a real match-up of powers.

Besides this, neither Sauron or Saruman are undefeatable, considering physical and psychological  powers as Maiar. Don't forget Sauron was scared when facing Aragorn and Ar-Phârazon, while Saruman stood defenceless against the Ents.

I'm rambling too much. 

[Trapper]

The Road to Edain 4.5 : Rohan's New Spellbook

[Secret Keeper]

Gondor spellbook got me hyped, then Mordor and Isengard ones were a slightly less interesting, but oh boy - Rohan spellbook looks amazing.

Battle and Draft order -  both looks amazing, great idea with banner discount. However I think that draft order would be used more as it sounds more beneficial

Aid of the Woses and Royal Vanguard - finally some spying/uncloaking abilities for rohan (scout from outpost is barely used :/ ). Vanguard looks like a classic damage dealing spell, nothing complicated - I like it.

Highborn Warhorses - apart from super name , it's good that you are trying to help with rohans poor economy.

Three Hunters - Here I think Rohan does not need them to be permanent. They all cost around 2500 in their specific factions, they are really strong with unique damage dealing spells. I am looking forward how this would work out in games.

Glory of the King - Sounds good and strong, again interested how it would work in online matches.

Overall impression? Interesting, strong, helpful and mainly every spell feels useful. Although, I've got the impression  that you are not that strict with some mechanics ( permanent druadan statues, perma three hunters ... ) as you were under Ealendril  Keep up the good work. 

[Garlodur]

I had the feeling just this afternoon that I just needed to check the ET's progress, even though I have tons of other things to do. I really can't wait for this update, it seems to change around so much of the gameplay that I positively believe all players (even the multiplayer pros) will be noobs again for the first weeks, just trying out all new possibilities.

Direct feedback: I love the way you implemented the Draft, splitting it up into a defensive and offensive part, very ingenious. Too bad you removed the Simbelmynë, I felt it had a strong symbolic meaning to Rohan: perhaps you can implement such white flowers as a decal around the Rally Point for Settlement plots?

The central spell sounds a bit strong with the permanent hero buff, because Rohan has a strong reliance on its heroes to succeed already. I wonder how it's going to play out in terms of balance.

I love what you did to the Druedáin, it is an amazing feature to have their watchfulness implemented this way. Question though: will the Woses be controllable but temporary as they defend their statue, and if so, can they leave the direct range of it?

About the third row, not much change on the right side. I wonder though if the Highbred Warhorses and the Three Hunters should not be swapped around, the Hunters being on the outer branch. Reason being that the Hunters are currently not so useless if you don't have the money to recruit them (in the range of 2500-3000 I suppose) but you really want/need to switch trees to get back into the game, regain map control and earn resources! I would appreciate your reflection on this.

All in all, my visionary senses did not disappoint me  . Great job on this spell book 

[Walküre]

Overall impression? Interesting, strong, helpful and mainly every spell feels useful. Although, I've got the impression  that you are not that strict with some mechanics ( permanent druadan statues, perma three hunters ... ) as you were under Ealendril  Keep up the good work. 

Very interesting. I'm much curious about your statement, because I too can relate to that, at a certain extent. I nonetheless think that Ealendril has very little to do with that; it's probably due to the fact that one was too much used to the old spellbook system, so that such a radical overhaul might initially seem really revolutionary, compared to how it fared before. At the end of the day, coding and scripting are certainly not matters which the Edain Team is lacking at the moment. Although Ealendril's presence is indeed irreplaceable, they are still capable of conceiving grand designs

Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed the update and saw through the potential of Rohan's new spells. I could never understand how people dare to say that these new spells are completely boring and pointless; you may not agree with the result, but the new breath of fresh air is pretty undeniable